Safety in hiking

[carole]

The subject has come up in the past but in light of my recent ‘missing hiker’ thread I thought it might be good to revisit the subject of safety and share ideas.

Some comments in the aforementioned thread I wanted to address.

Fear to hike alone. If one is uncomfortable with hiking alone that’s okay. Many are. Many others are perfectly comfortable alone and will continue to hike solo. As mentioned in said thread, assaults take place everyday and more likely elsewhere than on the trail. Yet, obviously it occurs on the trail also, but pairs have been assaulted also so hiking with someone is not always a key to safety.

Protection. Often the suggestions are a dog, self-defense training, or a gun. Again, if that’s what makes you comfortable, that’s okay. A dog may be a deterrent to attack but as in this case and others the dog was not a deterrent. Self-defense training is a good idea but again it may not be enough. A gun (or knife) needs to be accessible (but not visible?) and you need to know how to use it in a stressful situation. Maybe you can but many cannot. (Annie Oakley I am not. Trying to shot straight with my camera is tough for me.)

Creepy looking people. A lot of hikers are creepy looking – browse through VFTT avatars . Not all attackers are creepy looking, or come across as creepy, but can be very ‘normal’ looking and smooth talking.

Popular trails. I’d venture to say that were someone looking to assault another they would more likely be on a popular trail where there is more possibility of finding that ‘right’ someone(s).

Often there is no right or wrong. But being aware of your surroundings and on alert at all times is a very important factor in safety. Sadly I see that is often not the case with hikers and not just solo hikers. Music plugged into one’s ears always saddens me as they are easy targets. And how often are we just chatting away with our partner completely unaware of others. I have been able to come right up behind many such ones and totally startle them.

Hike safe.

 

[Gris]

Bottom line is it sucks that there are crazy, evil people lurking in this world. If I were a woman, I'd worry about solo hiking, esp. overnight. As for me, I always carry a very sharp, not unsubstantial knife and figure unless someone has a gun they're in for a tough time. FWIW, if I were hiking with my daughter or wife, which I often have, I'd make any crazies shoot me ten times through before I'd let em touch either one of them...

 

[TMax]

FWIW, if I were hiking with my daughter or wife, which I often have, I'd make any crazies shoot me ten times through before I'd let em touch either one of them...

Want to adopt me?

I do tons of solo hiking and am always very aware of the possibility of running into a creepy person. But I've only had one really scary interaction with a creepy guy. I was hiking in the Catskills on a marked trail with my dog when a guy stepped out of the woods and he was carrying a rifle. It was hunting season so initially I didn't get that "creep" vibe. But then he says (his very first words, no hello, no nothing...) "You alone?" Quite honestly, it terrified me. The lie rolled very quickly off my tongue "No, my boyfriend is right behind me." As soon as I was out of his line of vision, I hit the woods and bushwacked back down to the trailhead!

I've thought about carrying mace, but having worked with both violent criminals and victims for most of my adult life, I've seen all too often that when things are carried for self-defense, they often get used against the victim. That would be my luck! I just figure I'm mean enough that most people won't mess with me!

Odds are in our favor when it comes to this. I tend to feel safer when I'm solo back-country camping then when I'm solo car-camping. Statistics tell us that we are far more likely to be hurt in many other ways. We can't let this stuff get in the way of enjoying what we do.

Hike on!!!

 

[una_dogger]

Way to be, Gris!

I had a creepy experience this fall on the Clarendon Gorge Bridge on the VT LT/AT -- very strange character coming across the bridge when Leaf and I were standing on it -- making direct eye contact with us and I definately felt a feeling that we were being "targeted". Rather than let him pass us on the narrow bridge (many many years ago my two young cousins were thrown to their death by a man on a Pennsylvania bridge like this one) I told Leaf "lets go" and we quickly moved ahead of him and then off the bridge. Up the trail towards the parking lot, he passed us just as another creepy guy was coming down the trail -- I noticed them making eye contact, then the second creepy guy was coming towards us -- again we veered away and moved quickly to our cars, we saw the man enter the brush on the far side of the parking lot. When we got in our car, we saw him through the brush, looking at us and TAKING OFF his clothes. Very scary encounter, especially considering this was broad daylight on Labor Day weekend at popular roadside attraction. I had a very strong feeling they were working together.

Once again on the LT while I was backpacking solo with Terra, we ran into a guy who was VERY strange, all in camo -- huge backpack, kept appearing to get himself turned around on the trail and we enountered him several times over the course of two days -- Terra was very unnerved by him and to the point of being difficult to control her barking at him. We ended up adding extra miles so we could make our town stop earlier than planned, just to avoid him. Creepy.

One of the tips I learned in a MiniRAD course was to *trust your gut*. Too often as women we want to be friendly, want to help others -- and predatory criminals not only know this they *rely* on it. If the situation doesn't feel right, and I'm alone, I'm going to trust my gut. If that means swiftly passing someone without hesitation and maybe saying "sorry, can't help with that" when I am a safe distance away, so be it.

Want to adopt me?



Odds are in our favor when it comes to this. I tend to feel safer when I'm solo back-country camping then when I'm solo car-camping. Statistics tell us that we are far more likely to be hurt in many other ways. We can't let this stuff get in the way of enjoying what we do.

Hike on!!!

I have heard that the majority of trail crimes occur within a mile of the trailhead, so I would agree with your car camping vs back country camping theory.


One thing that I don't tend to do but is a good idea is to report things when they seem amiss. It can't hurt to make a call, and it provides clues to solving crimes and placing timeframes on occurences. After reading about the missing Carolina hiker, I'm giving more thought to reporting issues.

 

[king tut]

I feel the opposite of most people here. I feel perfectly safe in the woods and less safe in real life. I work in downtown Burlington VT and ever since they closed out the mental hospital in VT, there are tons of mentally unstable and homeless people that are living on the streets and off of the generous welfare state of Vermont. I get hit up for money by desperate looking people several times a week, many of them freak me out a little. The police are breaking up fights and disturbances quite a bit and there's been quite a few high profile crimes in the area the last few years. I have ventured upon a few people in the woods that have given me the creeps, but the people I meet in town are a lot scarier than in the woods...

 

[una_dogger]

. I work in downtown Burlington VT and ever since they closed out the mental hospital in VT, there are tons of mentally unstable and homeless people that are living on the streets and off of the generous welfare state of Vermont. I get hit up for money by desperate looking people several times a week, many of them freak me out a little. .

That totally freaked me out when I lived in Rutland.

 

[griffin]

I live in Somerville, MA and work in downtown Boston. I feel reasonably safe in both places, but not nearly as safe as I feel in the woods (I'm female).

But on a few occasions I have run across people who give me the creeps or make my spidey-senses buzz a bit, and THOSE specific encounters do make me feel more vulnerable than potential creeps in town. Not because woodland crazies are any crazier, but because I feel like I have fewer options and less access to help if I need it.

My approach to personal safety is still the same where ever I am: be aware of where I am, trust my gut, but remember that all things considered I'm probably safe and there's no reason to live in fear.

 

[Dugan]

I'd add that "trusting your gut" isn't enough. I'm very careful around any strangers of either sex.

I agree with Una_dogger that when my dog reacts badly to someone, it definitely puts me more on edge too.

Yes, also citing nearby company is a good idea. I've done that more than once.

Trail registers: when solo I never sign in until leaving. Often, I'll use a male sounding name and say that I'm in a group and not just 1.

If you're going to carry a weapon, be trained and confident. Be sure that you will use it rather than depending on it as a threat. Otherwise, it can do you more harm than good.

Take a self defense course.


I dunno what it is about VT but that's the only place I've ever had trouble. I know another participant here also had a bad experience there. Probably nothing, just statistical anomaly.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

...I was hiking in the Catskills on a marked trail with my dog when a guy stepped out of the woods and he was carrying a rifle. It was hunting season so initially I didn't get that "creep" vibe. But then he says (his very first words, no hello, no nothing...) "You alone?" Quite honestly, it terrified me.

I used to hunt many years ago, so I think I know why he asked you that question, as I've asked it of other hunters I've encountered, and they me. For one thing, it's a safety issue - is there anyone that you know of behind you? If there is, then a safe hunter wants to know about where they might be to avoid shooting in that direction. The second reason for asking is that it takes about 20 minutes for the woods to quiet down, so if you know there's others behind then a hunter might decide to move off in another direction.

Don't know whether whether this helps or not. OTH, the person might have been a total creep

 

[bubba]

there are tons of mentally unstable and homeless people that are living on the streets and off of the generous welfare state of Vermont...

Let's not make a line between those with mental illness ---> and crime. The statistics won't support the notion. Hopefully these individuals can find the help they need. Mental illness is treatable. Possibly we all need to write our state representatives and remind them the importance of funding mental health support issues.

As for safety on the trails, some good points are made so far. Let's not forget the basics of leaving a plan and time frame. That was one I thought seemed missing from the Ga. hiker reports early on.

 

[Dave Bear]

Alot of valid points being made and Sabrina, very sorry about the loss you experienced years ago. So tragic and inhumane! I hike most of the time with my sister-in-law and we discuss protection from time to time. I believe very strongly in having something knife, pepper spray or a gun and as has been stated the training and fortitude to use it. I would rather see a woman give someone lead poisoning than become a statistic. My hiking partner is better with a gun than I, having cowboy action shooting as a side hobby she is a sure-shot. I believe in an extreme circumstance she would be capable of making the necessary decision, some could not without the benefit of training. This would teach more than just how to use a weapon but also validate why. A big concern I have is having seen many young girls, teens and early teens, hiking aparently alone this summer. All I could think of is my beautiful seventeen year-old daughter out by herself and I would get the creeps. It is too naive to think this is just okay. We spent years worrying that somone would steal her away in a mall or parking lot to never be seen again. It is very sad that the world includes this element but I think if a few cases were dealt capital punishment in the woods by the victims in self defense the world wouldn't miss them and it would be a good deterent. Important also to remember to bring protection when you briefly leave the tent at night and are vulnerable. So sorry to have to discuss this subject but it is reality and not just in the woods. Be safe all!

 

[Mongoose]

Thanks to the media everyone is more afraid of everything than they should be. We constantly hear about the bad things happening in the world, but rarely the good things. Bad news sells better.

Personally I never feel uncomfortable in the backcountry. I've met all kinds of unusual people, but none of them have made me feel threatened or uncomfortable. The variety of personalities is what makes the world interesting, and when hiking you'll see plenty of them. People come from all around to go hiking, from the back country to the city, so it's not unusual to see a wide array of people.

 

[Rik]

Let's not make a line between those with mental illness ---> and crime. The statistics won't support the notion. Hopefully these individuals can find the help they need. Mental illness is treatable. Possibly we all need to write our state representatives and remind them the importance of funding mental health support issues.

As for safety on the trails, some good points are made so far. Let's not forget the basics of leaving a plan and time frame. That was one I thought seemed missing from the Ga. hiker reports early on.

Thanks for pointing this out Bubba.

I think the stats will show that you are much more likely to be hurt by someone you already know than you are by a stranger.

 

[Maddy]

Meredith had lots going for her, including her body strength and blue belt. This speaks volumes to me.
She was seen several times with Hilton and it appears that other hikers did not get the sense that she was concerned or needed help. She was also very young and perhaps a bit too inclined to trust strangers.
I suspect that Hilton engaged her in "sweet" conversation, befriended her, she let her guard down, possibly turned her back on him to walk away, and he knocked her unconscious with his baton. The rest is history. If at that point he restrained her she had not a prayer of surviving this. I suspect he was good at this and like so many others, she was not his first victim.
Meredith could whip a 250lb man over her shoulder, and was an avid runner/hiker, he was no match for her unless he was wielding a gun or approached her from behind and knocked her senseless.
There are advanced RAD courses that teach you how to handle yourself when someone is armed with a weapon and her martial arts course might have trained her to do that as well.
1.BE AWARE of your surroundings.
2.STAY YOUR DISTANCE from a stranger and NEVER TURN YOUR BACK to them. Don't even bend over to pick up something that you might have dropped in front of them.
Use your hiking pole if you can to scoop it up.
3.Even if you are scared to death, BE ASSERTIVE.
Don't start shaking and stuttering. Save that for later.
4.A nice BIG dog or a medium size NOISY mutt is a big plus.
Just keep in mind how nice and endearing Ted Bundy was to all the ladies, even feigning a broken arm so they would get up close to help him.
When you are out in the woods alone ,or as Unadogger and Leaf were, this is not the time to test the theory that all humans are intrinsically good and really mean you no harm.
A stranger is just that....a stranger!
You can be friendly and polite but still KEEP YOUR DISTANCE.
Personally, I don't care what the statistics are. I don't want to be one of them.
I actually had two encounters in VT but none for a very long time now. Your right Dugan. "What is with VT?"
I am amazed at how many women on the boards have had encounters hiking that were worrisome to them. We are not that large a group.
I can tell you that even in VT state parks,(or any park), if I go take a shower and I am one of very few campers mid week during the low tourists months, KODI is at my side. Dogs might not be allowed in the rest rooms but this one sure is.
You don't have to be paranoid. You just have to be really careful.
I keep my pepper spray in my right hand pocket and when approaching a stranger I have my hand in there right on the canister, finger on button, ready to whip if out. It won't do you much good if it's at the bottom of your pack or tucked into one of your zippered pockets.
Let's be safe out there. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure!
You will feel much better about yourself if you have your "bag of tricks" with you. It just might give you the confidence and skills you need to get you out of a potentially bad situation.

 

[Ed'n Lauky]

In all my years of hiking my most dangerous experience was no doubt this summer when I was chased by a moose. That was a close encounter of a very uncomfortable kind.

I've had only one uncomfortable situation with a human. It took place a few years ago at a trail head for Pleasant Mt. I had just stepped out of the car when a young rather seedy looking man came running out of the woods right to my car. Just as he rounded the rear of the car and started towards me, Duffy jumped out of the car. The guy took one look at Duffy, did an about face and headed up the road in the opposite direction. Apparently the just the sight of a large Airedale was a sufficient deterrent.

I wondered at the time if I should risk leaving my car unattended, but decided to go ahead with the hike anyway. When I returned to the car I found that it had not been tampered with and I never saw any signs of the guy again.

 

[Dave Bear]

Thanks to the media everyone is more afraid of everything than they should be. We constantly hear about the bad things happening in the world, but rarely the good things. Bad news sells better.

Personally I never feel uncomfortable in the backcountry. I've met all kinds of unusual people, but none of them have made me feel threatened or uncomfortable. The variety of personalities is what makes the world interesting, and when hiking you'll see plenty of them. People come from all around to go hiking, from the back country to the city, so it's not unusual to see a wide array of people.

Of course this discussion is not about the moral majority which consists of alot of very fun and different people. The honest fact is that this is not a media stirred paranoia but things based on many occasional events that have happened to most of us. The world is not the innocent place we would love it to be. It is important to have the equipment and skills along with good sense to be able to deal with that rare occasion with the criminal element. My daughter hears alot of great things about having fun on the trail but also knows from us what things to be cautious of anywhere! She has great people skills and sense which she openly discusses issues with us. I would be much too naive if I told her not to worry about someone giving her the once over or more and it gave her the creeps! At the time she did she was justified and accurate. Even the small towns where I grew up have changed immensely. Last summer at Newfound lake some fellows got out of their car and my 12 year old boy saw a pistol in a guys waist band. He had gone to the parking lot to get something from my truck. He returned without it and when we left at the end of the day my nephews car had been vandalized and nice audio system removed. What would happen if someone walks up on them doing a crime in broad daylight? I still love the area we live and play in and always will. I just think that we as a well networked hiking community should do anything we can to look out for one another without interfering with each others enjoyment. If I meet a person on the trail with a bruise on the face or black eye I stop and ask if everything is ok no matter who they are with! I would do the same if they looked hypothermic just a different circumstance to look out for our fellow hiker!

 

[michaelb]

I work in downtown Burlington VT and ever since they closed out the mental hospital in VT, there are tons of mentally unstable and homeless people that are living on the streets and off of the generous welfare state of Vermont.

For some reason I feel compelled to clarify this point: 1) Vermont State Hospital has not been closed and there have only been modest changes to the involuntary mental health treatment system over the past 10 years; 2) very few of the homeless people you see on the street are connected to or related at all to mental health treatment; 3) Vermont does not have a "generous welfare state" and it is unlikely that many of the people you are seeing are connected with social services; 4) although many people date the arrival of a number of young people living on the street with the Phish concert of many years ago, the much more likely reason is an increase in the drug culture in the area (although this is not the only factor and causality is complicated).

I have spent much of my career working with women who have been victims of abuse, so I certainly have great sadness and sympathy for the real fears that they face about being victimized. Much of that does occur by boyfriends and husbands and fathers and acquaintances, but that doesn't make the fear of strangers any less real. For example, I have fears of being attacked by a bear in the woods, which is mostly not rational, and fears of flipping my canoe in cold water, which has a very solid foundation as a real danger.

I would like to think that all of us could hike in peace without fear and enjoy the experience. I am not sure what else this woman could have done, there is a strong suggestion that this was a very rare, unusual crime, that only circumstantially has anything to do with hiking. Each of us needs to rationally approach the wide range of risks we face hiking and in all our aspects of our life as best we can.

My only suggestion would be related to hiking with dogs. I love dogs and feel that they can provide a lot of protection and security. Labs can be awfully friendly however. In addition to the good practice of keeping a dog leashed generally, a dog on a leash is much more naturally protective. Having the dog leashed will limit greeting strangers off leash at a distance from the owner. Grabbing the dog by the collar when a stranger approaches, both to avoid the greeting, and to maximise the dogs training to be suscipious of the stranger and to feel your fear at the situation can also help (this is the opposite of socializing the dog not to be afraid of strangers and to greet humans appropriately, so do it judiciously and as part of an overall training program).

 

[WhiteMTHike]

The subject has come up in the past but in light of my recent ‘missing hiker’ thread I thought it might be good to revisit the subject of safety and share ideas.




Often there is no right or wrong. But being aware of your surroundings and on alert at all times is a very important factor in safety. Sadly I see that is often not the case with hikers and not just solo hikers. Music plugged into one’s ears always saddens me as they are easy targets. Hike safe.

I have to slightly disagree with the bold portion. I do 90% of my hiking on a solo basis. To me it's pretty much what hiking is all about. If I am indeed solo hiking, I always have my ear buds on and connected to my iPod. However I listen to very soft music (Enya or Loreena Mckennitt) and keep the music turned down low so I can hear the sounds of nature along with the music of either of these two ladies. So I am aware of my surroundings and able to hear what's going on around me.

As for feeling safe, I always do. I don't mean to sound macho but I work out 6 days a week at the gym and have been doing so for about 25 years. People tell me I look like someone who works out and anybody who'd start anything with me is crazy. With that being said, yes, there are people in this world who are crazy and any one of us could be approached by them. I was approached once by one of these crazies but it wasn't in the woods but it was on the streets of Providence. I have a very bad temper and lost it with this guy. I got in his face and started screaming every obscenity at him. Well, in the end he ended up thinking I was crazy and took off. To this day I don't know if he had a weapon on him or not but if he did I guess he decided not to use it.

I don't carry a weapon on me in the woods and don't intend to start. I served 20 years in the military and did the combat thing so I have zero desire to ever again pick up a gun or any other type of weapon. I'd love to own a dog but the guys in my avatar won't allow me to. I work in a city with a high crime rate and take a bus every day into a hell hole known as Kennedy Plaza in Providence, RI. Trust me, the chances of encountering a dangerous person there is much higher than in the woods.

Bottom line for me though... This case of this missing hiker is sad and one that we in the hiking community need to pay attention to. We all need to take sensible precautions in the woods. Sadly, a story like this is a reminder of just how high we need to keep our guard up.

May you all be safe in your hiking.

 

[king tut]

I didn't mean to imply that all people with mental illnesses are violent criminals. I don't think i made that statement, I was just trying to correlate mentally troubled people with danger. These people either have nothing to lose, may have lost their moral compass, or the line between right and wrong has just blurred for them. I went to college in the late 90's in Burlington, Vermont, i left for about 5 years and then I came back about 2 years ago. When I was in college, I spent a good amount of time downtown, I rarely ever saw people living on the street, violent interactions, or loud screaming between people that had to be broken up by the cops.

In the last two years I have seen a lot more homeless people living downtown, and a lot more altercations than ever before, and more dangerous looking people. There are also a lot more people with mental illnesses just wondering the streets. The majority are really nice and ask me many times if I am "that guy" on CSI or some other show or talk to me about the pigeons. They are nice people, but it just does not appear that they are getting the help they need, as I see them just wandering around aimlessly all day. I have just noticed that the people living off the streets and the people that do not seem right mentally have really multiplied in the last 5-10 years. I feel a lot safer in the woods than I do on the streets. When I read about murders and abductions that happen near where I live and work and I see people screaming and fighting, it kinda freaks me out a little.

 

[una_dogger]

KT, I didn't interpret your initial statement as a broad brush statement at all, and just want to add that having just recently spent a year and a half working in the Regional Hospital as well as living in and outside of Rutland, there are unfortunately alot of people on the streets that appear to have slipped through the social safety net.
(not suggesting they are criminals)
Its very sad, and I think its happening in alot of places, but I definately felt as though there were *alot* of down and out people on the streets in Rutland, more than I've ever seen anywhere else....sad. Maybe it has more to do with the fact that there are only a few major cities in VT, and these are the areas that those less fortunate will gravitate to because of easier access to services?