Severe wind chills, why would one go to the summit

[DaveSunRa]

Mount Washington Observatory posted severe wind chills (-60 to -70). Question: would people really try a summit attempt with that kind of forecast? Or an I just a baby?

 

[cbcbd]

Depends on the wind speed up there.
If you have the right clothes, love the Antarctic weather, make sure to have NO exposed skin whatsoever, and the wind wasn't that strong that you couldn't stand up... then why not?


Probably wouldn't do it alone, though - it'd be nice to have someone there to tell you if your nose is exposed and turning white

 

[likeitsteep]

of course most people would love to be out hiking on a warm, dry and sunny day. i believe the reason most individuals hike, backpack, camp, etc in adverse conditions (such as winter), is because it's challenging. that's my personal opinion. others may have some other thoughts. looking forward to hearing them.

 

[DougPaul]

Mount Washington Observatory posted severe wind chills (-60 to -70). Question: would people really try a summit attempt with that kind of forecast? Or an I just a baby?

IMO, wind chills mean far less than the actual temp and winds. -60F and no wind is very different from -20F and whatever winds bring the windchill to -60F.

I have been out on a summit with a wind chill of -75F (-17F real and 50kt winds, IIRC), but it was only a short distance from cover. You prepare first and then go out. Or if you don't want to, don't go.

It isn't about being a hero or a wimp. Everyone has an experience level, a skill level, a goal level, a desired safety margin, and a comfort level. Choose what you like and enjoy youself. If you wish to follow the leadership of someone more experienced out beyond your normal envelope, fine. If you do not wish to, also fine. Same with pushing your envelope on your own.

Doug

 

[expat]

Challenge

It's definitely for the challenge, for me. However, I'm very conservative in what I expect from any trip. Turning around is always an option, and one often taken.

Some people find challenges in very long distances, others in technical ascents.

Another reason for going on a day that's really cold, is that they are often the most visually beautiful. There's nothing more sublime than being on a summit, or even just being above treeline on a sunny, crystal clear day in winter.

I don't go out of my way to seek out the coldest days, windiest days, etc. but when I have a trip planned, I don't let a little cold dissuade me. If conditions seem like they could be dangerous for any reason, I change plans before they *are* dangerous.

Also, no bugs.

 

[MichaelJ]

I was on Zealand that day. The temps were -5°F on my little pack thermometer (which the more I think about it probably meant colder than that), and we had a gust at 50mph at the Zealand spur junction.

While traversing the ridge from Zeacliff I thought "This isn't that bad; it would be fun to throw on an extra layer and the goggles and get some exposure, see what it's like. I've been above treeline in winds in winter before and was fine." Remember that Mt. Washington is often dramatically worse in weather conditions and winds than the rest of the Whites.

Would I have actually done it that day? No. But I did indeed think about it. It was tempting. Heck, I've skied at 3°F and there's plenty of self-made wind there, plus the conditions sitting on the lift. I've also been on a windless summit at -26°F.

Hikers like a challenge. It's why we climb peaks instead of walking around city sidewalks (okay, I like a flat bike ride, but it's not about me ) It's a matter of distinguishing those challenges that can kill you a little too easily.

It's the whiteout conditions due to blowing snow that really scare me. When there's suddenly no safe route, no way to turn around, well, that's the situation I want to avoid, hope never to find myself in.

 

[DaveSunRa]

I can understand a challenge but at -60 to -70 with perhaps at lest a hour plus of hiking above treeline might be as dangerous as hiking into a high avi setting. Granted having all the right equip, no exposed skin, experience, etc.. is mandatory. However, there's not much room if at all for error. Example goggles frosting over, trying to make adjustments with an not realizing your glove just too off into the wind. I've been above treeling with low temps and very heavy wind (-50). Luckily the wind was on my back, I don't think I could have turn around and hiked for an hour into the wind.

 

[Skyclimber]

"Challenging the Peak in Winter" or "Signing my Death Wish" is two different experiences. No Way would I climb in -60 to -70 wind chills!

Be a whimp and stay home.

 

[DougPaul]

I can understand a challenge but at -60 to -70 with perhaps at lest a hour plus of hiking above treeline might be as dangerous as hiking into a high avi setting. Granted having all the right equip, no exposed skin, experience, etc.. is mandatory. However, there's not much room if at all for error. Example goggles frosting over, trying to make adjustments with an not realizing your glove just too off into the wind. I've been above treeling with low temps and very heavy wind (-50). Luckily the wind was on my back, I don't think I could have turn around and hiked for an hour into the wind.

Just work up to it slowly and go with someone else who is at least as experienced as you are. When you have a facemask and goggles on you can't see as well as without and mittens and mitten shells make it hard to manipulate anything. A partner can help you check and adjust your face gear as well as help with anything.

Once you are well out in those conditions it can be hard to change anything. Start with shorter trips and work up. Extra points for being able to eat and drink through your facemask. (Gorp etc in a wide mouth bottle is one way of eating.)

Use idiot strings on your mittens and carry spares in your pack.
And it may take a few tries to learn how to keep your goggles clear enough.

Doug

 

[Kevin Rooney]

It's all about experience. If you build up to it, and especially if you're already acclimated to cold weather by living in northern NE, then those conditions are manageable. You need to know what you're doing though, as there's little/no margin for error.

With brilliant sunshine and temps below zero means you can see for a zillion miles - one of the reasons to climb to the top of a mountain when it's that cold. I remember being on the top of Mansfield in such conditions when my comparions casually pointed out we could the skyscrapers in Montreal - that was pretty amazing. On such a day in the early morning from Washington you can see the sun glinting off the ocean - that's also something that gets your heart pounding.

 

[likeitsteep]

there's an aspect of hiking that often gets overlooked on this forum. we talk a lot about the importance of experience and proper gear, but i rarely read about the aspect of fitness. in many ways, it's the most important. i think a lot of people forget that hiking is an athletic endeavor. the more fit you are, the better you're going to be on the mountain, without question. you'll move faster. you'll be more agile. more stamina and endurance. you can generally carry a heavier pack. it all makes for a safer journey up and down. maybe one should obsess less about the the gear du jour and concentrate on the body they're hauling around.

 

[BrentD22]

personal comfort level

I know skin doesn't care if you don't mind the cold. Skin will frost bite either way, but I do have to say that I really don't mind being chilly. When I hike I'm often wearing far less than others. I've been out in extreme cold and I have always felt that if I dress correctly below 0 is OK with me.

The real danger isn't hiking in that cold it's not hiking when your out there. It's twisting an ankle and being stuck in that cold or getting lost and being out longer with little food or water.

The coldest day I've been out in was -26 low with a -14 avg. for the day. The winds where avg. 41 and peaked at 71 that day. Per the wind chill index that would make an avg. of -50 and a peak low of somewhere in the area of -70 with wind index. To be completly honest while I hiked I was not cold although that night I was extremely cold. I had to fire up the stove 2 times to boil water that night in order to put 3 warm bottles in my sleeping bag.

Bugger Freezing

 

[Stan]

... the more fit you are, the better you're going to be on the mountain, without question. you'll move faster. you'll be more agile. more stamina and endurance. you can generally carry a heavier pack. it all makes for a safer journey up and down. maybe one should obsess less about the the gear du jour and concentrate on the body they're hauling around.

True to some extent but if fitness equates to low body fat, then experience suggests that you're at a disadvantage in a survival situation. The body fat provides both a layer of insulation and an energy reserve.

Those winter love handles have an advantage after all.

 

[MEB]

Why is my butt the only thing that ever gets cold??? That is where all my extra fat is.

Seriously though, I agree with what everyone has been saying...it depends on experience, fitness and the risk your willing to take each time you head out.

-MEB

 

[DaveSunRa]

Ok, say you're off to summit Washington, day trip via winter loin's head. Leaving Pinkham forcaste calls -40 to -50 with wind chill. You get to Hermit Lake and now the ranger post a new update: -60 to -70. Got got all the gear, experince and an equal hiking partner. Twenty degree delta difference colder, servere cold. Would you go for the summit?

I think I would go to the top of loins head and check it out. But I don't believe I would go for the summit.

 

[Chip]

Why is my butt the only thing that ever gets cold???
-MEB

We need some scientific studies.

This is similar to the "how much pack weight is too much". I doubt body fat helps with frostbite. Low body fat types are more susceptible to hypothermia, but if you're more fit then you're not working as hard. I believe a bit too fit is generally safer than a bit too fat. As always, I'm sure there are exceptions.

 

[Grumpy]

We need some scientific studies.

... I believe a bit too fit is generally safer than a bit too fat. As always, I'm sure there are exceptions.

I think it is an error to absolutely equate "fat" with "unfit" or "scrawny" with "fit." There is more to it than that.

G.

 

[likeitsteep]

i personally believe thinner people stay warmer (with the proper attire) in general. my first hand observations have included seeing people with some excess weight, get hypothermic with exertion. reason being, it's very cold old, they get really sweaty, they get soaked, they start to freeze bad. i've witnessed it first hand. meanwhile, the thin person maintains a perfect core temp, because the equal exertion, mixed with the cold, keeps you at perfect equilibrium. so i don't buy the "extra girth around the middle" keeps you warm. maybe at a perfect stand still, but then you have the right gear to insulate even the most gaunt scarecrow

 

[Kevin Rooney]

Ok, say you're off to summit Washington, day trip via winter loin's head. Leaving Pinkham forcaste calls -40 to -50 with wind chill. You get to Hermit Lake and now the ranger post a new update: -60 to -70.

Minor point, but most hikers climbing Washington don't go to Hermit Lake. The Lions Head winter trail cuts right well below that - as if you're going into Huntingtons. And the Jewell/Ammo approach is from the other side.

Granted, these aren't the only approach, but probably account for 95% of them.

 

[DaveSunRa]

Minor point, but most hikers climbing Washington don't go to Hermit Lake. The Lions Head winter trail cuts right well below that - as if you're going into Huntingtons. And the Jewell/Ammo approach is from the other side.

Granted, these aren't the only approach, but probably account for 95% of them.

True, the Lions Head winter starts before reaching the rangers station. Hey, it's just a hypethical question. Heck, maybe you need to use the outhouse at Hermit lake first.