Thoreau Falls Bridge Removal?

[Will]

...under the law rights-of-way should and cannot be withdrawn lightly

These little people make their own laws in their little kingdoms.

If AMC had a mind to fight this...

Thanks for my laugh of the evening. I have quite a mess to clean up on my keyboard, but small price to pay for such a laugh.

 

[AHIKER]

Thanks Dave...

Any cable low enough to be used by hikers would be wiped out most years by ice flow.

The four bridges sound like they are between LW and the camp site or just beyond. They won't help you on the journey from Zealand.

Dave;
Thanks, you make a good point about the cable torn out by ice. I wish it wasn't so because I know folks will try to ford in high water. Forest
Service states that "folks will have to just turn around and go back" if too high to Ford the river. Ever hear of anyone doing that? Sorry, I'm just
a sceptic when it comes to what folks will do oni different situations. I've seen a lot of dumb things people done in the past! (and no doubt have
done a few dumb things myself myself). Well, time will tell. I'm still ok to hike this section this week as the water will likely be low even if they
have removed the bridge but I doubt that they are up that far yet. Should be interesting!!! Look like the weather on Thursday will be ok so I should
be going from "Z" trail head at about 1pm to "the Bridge" on thursday (I'd like to make it as far as the east side campsites but that is 13.7m which
(for me) might be a little long. Anyway, I'll finish on Friday. Stop by and chat if you are out that way (anyone).
Gordon

 

[Ignomer]

I bet the cables from the last bridge they ripped out are still out in the woods. I'd bet a group of five or six people could string them up across that brook assuming they had a day without a ranger bothering them...

 

[David Metsky]

Forest Service states that "folks will have to just turn around and go back" if too high to Ford the river. Ever hear of anyone doing that?

Yes, many times. I've done it myself. People should do it more often.

 

[TEO]

I agree with Kevin. Also, give me a break on the whole "wilderness" aspect. The whole of the Whites was logged to death just 100 years ago and the region is bisected with highways including a major interstate. The bridge in question is a few miles from the Kanc. In fact, the bridge is a mile or so from the East Side Trail which you can basically drive on if the gate is open. Wilderness my ass: we all got duped letting the Feds in to manage the Whites. We get tortured garbage like this. Rebuild the f'king bridge.

-Frank

Just because the area was logged even less than a century ago, does not prevent it from returning to a wild state. The Pemi is a remarkable beacon of hope. To think that it was not long ago stripped bare & to see the transformation it has since undergone--nature can recover. Just because it is a small area, does not invalidate it as a patch of wilderness.

Laura & Guy Waterman argued that even the mere knowledge that there were these areas of wilderness was fundamental to our being human. When I was younger, I thought the notion of having land set aside where no trails were allowed was stupid--what would be the point of the area if we couldn't easily explore it? Now, I'm excited to look at a map or stand on a peak and see an area where to explore means leaving the beaten path. I don't want everything to be like Franconia Ridge or the Presidentials. I think it's great that the WMNF has decided to create a small spot of wildness so close to, and in spite of, the crowded & popular areas near by.

Probably like many people here, it was the high, open, wind-swept, exposed, alpine scenes of the Presidentials, Mansfield, & Marcy that helped hook me on hiking. Now, I'm just as excited by the times to be caught in the thick of some seemingly untouched mountainside & have the feeling that I'm the only person for miles around.

Forest Service states that "folks will have to just turn around and go back" if too high to Ford the river. Ever hear of anyone doing that?

Yup, I've had to bail on peaks & make a major changes to my itineraries for multi-day hikes, because of high water. I've also planned trips to avoid particular crossings when there was a strong likelihood of high water.

 

[Becca M]

Has anyone here driven past or tried to use the Lincoln Woods Trailhead lately? Cars far up and down last Saturday, as was the Hancock Notch Trailhead - ? It's getting like the Falling Waters/Franconia Ridge Trailhead!!!

How are these people legally parking roadside when there are signs (at least at Lincoln Woods) you cannot park roadside - ?

Where are these people going? Can the current trails even handle the traffic? Are they bushwhacking into the Wilderness or concentrating on trails? What is going on?????

 

[Stan]

Wilderness size doesn't matter. IMNSHO its better to have a small wilderness than none at all though the definition and management strategy seems to be quite arbitrary and designed to fit personal and narrow political whims.

As for the danger of fording streams, most hikers in the backcountry are not on extreme one day events. Most are probably doing some mix of backpacking, camping, huts or shelters and plan to enjoy some time out there. "Weather conditions can change suddenly and without warning", daily and especially over a few days or more, and the returning hiker who can no longer ford a stream may be tempted to try it for lack of a feasible alternative. Well, I guess the political whims of those in power is one of a "thin the herd" mentality.

 

[Jazzbo]

Has anyone here driven past or tried to use the Lincoln Woods Trailhead lately? Cars far up and down last Saturday, as was the Hancock Notch Trailhead - ? It's getting like the Falling Waters/Franconia Ridge Trailhead!!!

How are these people legally parking roadside when there are signs (at least at Lincoln Woods) you cannot park roadside - ?

Where are these people going? Can the current trails even handle the traffic? Are they bushwhacking into the Wilderness or concentrating on trails? What is going on?????

Last Saturday when I visited there were dozens of cars parked along the Kanc. The established campground was full. Overflow campers are venturing into Wilderness Area looking for campsites. I saw two parties camping in peculiar locations one party right on Banks of Ceder Brook another party right on banks of North Branch. I encountered a third party of 4 hunting for a spot along north branch. I can see the future and it looks a lot like Baxter State Park. I wonder how Soylent Green is as trail snack? Many are experienced outdoors people, but many are not. Removing the bridge is bad policy from public safety point of view.

 

[HAMTERO]

Last Saturday when I visited there were dozens of cars parked along the Kanc. The established campground was full. Overflow campers are venturing into Wilderness Area looking for campsites. I saw two parties camping in peculiar locations one party right on Banks of Ceder Brook another party right on banks of North Branch. I encountered a third party of 4 hunting for a spot along north branch. I can see the future and it looks a lot like Baxter State Park. I wonder how Soylent Green is as trail snack? Many are experienced outdoors people, but many are not. Removing the bridge is bad policy from public safety point of view.

Wow! That's amazing.

 

[peakbagger]

Back in the good old days prior to the Lincoln Woods parking lot,(when I was in high school) the road would have cars parked for a 1/2 mile in either direction. The original trailhead was on the other side of the bridge when the LWT came out on the highway.

 

[Raven]

I wonder how Soylent Green is as trail snack?

Still good but much higher in saturated fat than it was 30 years ago.

 

[egilbe]

Still good but much higher in saturated fat than it was 30 years ago.

Haven't you heard? Saturated fat is healthy now. It's the processed carbs that will kill you.

 

[surf88]

Has anyone here driven past or tried to use the Lincoln Woods Trailhead lately? Cars far up and down last Saturday,

Where are these people going? Can the current trails even handle the traffic? Are they bushwhacking into the Wilderness or concentrating on trails? What is going on?????

I'm guessing that with it being a hot day most of the parked cars were swimmers going to Franconia Falls and not hikers.

Quote Originally Posted by AHIKER View Post

Forest Service states that "folks will have to just turn around and go back" if too high to Ford the river. Ever hear of anyone doing that?

I've had some exciting stream crossings myself. I've found this website helpful in guessing what stream crossings may look like.
http://waterdata.usgs.gov/nh/nwis/current/?type=flow
Mapview
http://maps.waterdata.usgs.gov/mapper/index.html

 

[Becca M]

I'm guessing that with it being a hot day most of the parked cars were swimmers going to Franconia Falls and not hikers.

Wasn't really that hot - just a nice day - and other hiking trailheads were CRAZY busy....Hancock Notch TH as well? No deep water in there either - ?

I'm thinking that all these shows/movies/etc on survival in the outdoors such as Bear Gryllis, Fat Guys in the Woods/etc are having an impact...

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ALSO, I seldom turn around at *any* water crossing, but, I take chances... one of these times my luck will run out

 

[skiguy]

If AMC had a mind to fight this...

Never happen. They are more worried about cutting up State Land next door by building a whole new Trail and Hut. Why waste time with some puny bridge.

 

[DayTrip]

Has anyone here driven past or tried to use the Lincoln Woods Trailhead lately? Cars far up and down last Saturday, as was the Hancock Notch Trailhead - ? It's getting like the Falling Waters/Franconia Ridge Trailhead!!!

How are these people legally parking roadside when there are signs (at least at Lincoln Woods) you cannot park roadside - ?

Where are these people going? Can the current trails even handle the traffic? Are they bushwhacking into the Wilderness or concentrating on trails? What is going on?????

Sat afternoon roughly 1PM it looked like the parking lot at Gillette during a Patriots game. I can't remember the last time I did Franconia Ridge. Just hate crowds like that. The noise, the trash, the constant moving out of the way on the trail for huge groups. And it is definitely spreading. When the weather is good on a Sat or Sun just about any trail head I've gone too has been overflowing onto the road. Even the less popular trails are starting to see foot traffic.

 

[DougPaul]

Back in the good old days prior to the Lincoln Woods parking lot,(when I was in high school) the road would have cars parked for a 1/2 mile in either direction. The original trailhead was on the other side of the bridge when the LWT came out on the highway.

LWT? Don't you mean the Wilderness trail? ...

* As of my 1976 guidebook both the Wilderness Trail head and the parking were west of the river.
* As of my 1987 guidebook both the Wilderness Trail head and the parking were east of the river.

Neither mentions the "LWT". Not sure of the date when it came into "existence"... (My next guidebook is 2007 which does mention the LWT.) The renaming games started with the Wilderness designation of the deep Pemi region. Which ties into the bridge removals...

Doug

 

[peakbagger]

I agree Doug, somewhere along the way the name changed. I didn't want to confuse the issue.

 

[Stan]

Neither mentions the "LWT". Not sure of the date when it came into "existence"... (My next guidebook is 2007 which does mention the LWT.) The renaming games started with the Wilderness designation of the deep Pemi region. Which ties into the bridge removals...Doug

What's in a name? This piqued my interest and I checked back editions of the White Mountain Guide. The 25th edition, 1992, does not mention the Lincoln Woods Trail but refers to the parking area east of the river as Lincoln Woods. The 26th edition, 1998, explains that the Wilderness Trail between the Kanc and the Wilderness Boundary was renamed the Lincoln Woods Trail by the USFS "in an attempt to emphasize which part of the trail runs within the officially designated Wilderness and which part of it lies outside ..." The Guide goes on to say that "... since the name Wilderness Trail is very firmly established among the hiking public ... " we'll ignore the bastards "... in the hope of minimizing confusion." Well, I did a little editing of my own but you get the point.

 

[Will]

...the name Wilderness Trail is very firmly established among the hiking public ... " we'll ignore the bastards "

The "hiking public" referred to are largely dead, but to me it's still the Wilderness Trail.

One of the very few times I've been proud of my adult-lifetime membership in the AMC is when they resisted the name change. For a little while.