What would you do?

[MadRiver]

We have friends who have a cabin near our place in NH and have two kids; a boy 6 and a girl 8. Recently Tim (the father) has expressed some interest in having the kids hike the 48’s as a way of introducing them to hiking. Initially I was all for it. However, he has his mind set on doing an overnight to Garfield campsite as their first introduction to the wonderful world of hiking. His rationale is that he wants a “wow factor” that will instill a fervent desire in them to pursue the 48’s. Unfortunately, I think it will have the direct opposite effect that he is looking for.

They recently did a hike to the first ledges on Welsh and all were completely exhausted, so to me hiking to Garfield is totally out of the question. Compounding this issue is Tim’s total lack of hiking experience or even having the most basic of gear with which to accomplish this overnight trip.

I do not wish to rain on their parade, but nor do I wish to sit idly by and watch a train wreck. My fear is that if Tim continues to pursue the Garfield trip, these kids are going to come away with a complete hatred of hiking.

I do plan on gently suggesting that they do a few warm up hikes prior to even considering Garfield, but barring Divine intervention, there is not much more that I can do.

 

[WhiteMTHike]

They recently did a hike to the first ledges on Welsh and all were completely exhausted, so to me hiking to Garfield is totally out of the question.

I think Tim's original idea of starting on the Welch-Dickey trail was a good one. In fact whenever I talk to a co-worker who asks me a good trail in the WMNF to get their kid(s) started on I always send them to Welch-Dickey.

Simply put I'm all for challenging young hikers but if you go too far over their heads they'll hate hiking; just like anything else. If it were me I'd kindly suggest to Tim that he try Welch-Dickey again and this time try to finish it. After accomplishing this then they can try the longer trails. Personally I don't think Welch-Dickey is anything to sneeze at. I find it to be challenging enough with some great views for a moderate effort.

Again, my suggestion would be for them to go back to Welch-Dickey and get that sense of accomplishment by finishing then start thinking about stepping up to the next level at a later date. Hope you agree and find this helpful. Best wishes on this one.

 

[Puck]

Not much you can do. If he is hell bent..he is going. If you talk with him and voice your concerns then you will have done everything you can do.

I agree with you. Starting off with kids it would be better to have a base camp then a hike with day packs. I was always afraid of doing to much with mys on thinking he could be discoureged. They will be like scortched seeds never to sprout. We as parents must be carefull.

 

[torn&frayed]

Every kid is different. I introduced mine to hiking in small measures. First Mt Major, then Mt. Willard, Mt. Monadnock, and Mt. Chocorua. They didn't fall in love with the sport the way I have, but we still do our annual hike up Chocorua, and we bring along their new and old friends.
I met the Sikes kids a while back and they are hiking animals, so you just never know. (They did the New England Hundred Highest before they were teenagers, or something like that)

 

[giggy]

I think your dead on - I am always trying to introduce freinds who are adults to hiking and climbing and I think we take it for granted how tough it can be to get to the top. yea - NH mts aren't that big, hard in the larger scheeme of things -- but they still have 2-4000 feet of ele gaijn in short distances - for the most part. but if your not used to it - what seems easy to us who have been doing it for a while - can be downright grueling and unpleasant to some.

perfect example is I took my brother on a "easy" hike up laffeyette this year. I have done this thing so many times - that I kind of forgot how tough it can be to a first timer - and to someone who isn't in the best shape - They might not have fun!! he just got out of the navy and actually was in ok shape. We didn't make to that hut and he had a hard time. I think it turred himm off it all together. Start small and build up -

 

[sli74]

Maybe you can suggest Jackson or Pierce as an alternative, still a bit much for anyone who gets tired by the first ledges on Welch-Dickey but atleast it isn't Garfield and they are still 4000-footers? Good Luck !!!

sli74

 

[Puck]

Maybe you can suggest Jackson or Pierce as an alternative, still a bit much for anyone who gets tired by the first ledges on Welch-Dickey but atleast it isn't Garfield and they are still 4000-footers? Good Luck !!!

sli74

Sli great idea! Those peaks usually have Gray Jays. The only thing better then hiking is having a bird on your head. Kids will love that!

 

[sapblatt]

MadRiver -

I agree with your concerns. Us parents need to be concerned that we are not forcing our interests on our children. I think there is a big difference between exposing your kids to hiking and the outdoors and sending them on a tough overnight hike. I would say that hiking to Garfield as an overnight is a pretty easy hike, but I am not sure about starting with an overnight backpack.

I would think a day hike to an easier hill (Tecuseh, Waumbek, Oscela) would be the way to start, or an overnight to Lonesome Lake. You want the kids coming away wanting more...not being exhausted and resentful.

 

[Sherpa John]

I'd take them up Jackson.. short hike with a view!

 

[Chip]

I do not wish to rain on their parade, but nor do I wish to sit ideally by and watch a train wreck.

Ideally you would not sit idly by. (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)
HOWEVER, you may have to. This is America. He's the Dad.
It might be a disaster, but it could be a family memory the kids never forget.
Heck, I still have the canvas external frame back-pack and Caldor special sleeping bag that I did year-round camp-outs as a Boyscout with, and I survived.

 

[McRat]

If they are local to NH, I would recommend Mt. Cardigan.

The AMC maintains a nice lodge there, they are fairly family-based in their programs, the trails are well marked, and although the ol' baldy is only 3120' (approx 1800' vertical) it is the highest peak for a good distance around and it gives that "top-of-the-world" experience for the little folks. Good hill and lake views.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

To me, the whole problem is that he is already planning on the 48.

The first hiking trip I took my kids on, was an overnighter... in the rain.. In the Adirondacks. Through Avalanche Pass, camp at Lake Colden, next day, clinmb Algonquin. The kids were 5 and 7.

I didn't say this was the first of many. I had no plans on anything more. We just went on an adventure. The kids ended up liking it, and they told me that they wanted to do more. Had they said, "Never again." I would have accepted it. No plans meant no expectations. I exposed my kids to things I enjoy, but never pushed them into it.

As things turned out, the oldest and the youngest maintained their interest in hiking/etc. The oldest spent 40 days solo hiking in Nepal at age 19. The youngest now spends his complete summers working and living in the adirondacks. The middle guy, who seemed to have been the one who enjoyed hiking the most, doesn't really like it any more.

But I never tried to push them into it.

I don't think you can really make a kid do something they don't like. Maybe once or twice, but not 48 (or 46) times.

 

[twigeater]

My son was all done with hiking after he did Katahdin's Knife Edge at age 12 or 13...literally - he loved that hike, but wanted to go home as soon as we all got off the mountain. I continued to drag him along with me for a couple more years, but it soon became *no fun* so I stopped making him go with me.

I hope to get my grandgirl (age 6) to overnight at Chimney Pond in August. If it turns out the hike is too much, we have backup reservations at Roaring Brook where her dad and 4 year old brother will be. We'll do some other hikes before then and see how it goes.
My goal is that they have a good time, then they'll want to go again. I'll keep taking them until it becomes too uncool for them to be hanging out with grandma.

To me, the whole problem is that he is already planning on the 48.

I agree with Pete Hickey on that one...MadRiver, maybe you can suggest that your friend have a backup "plan" using safety as an excuse.

 

[Pucknuts61]

Hi Madriver,
I like some of the suggestions.....Pierce or Jackson with a stay a Nauman will mean they'll be close to the hut, so there might be people there to help if anything happens.
But if he's as stubborn as you say getting him to do another hill might be tough.
Is there any way you could go along at least on this first one to "assist" and keep an eye on things?
I'd hate for the kids to meet SAR instead of fellow helpful hikers on their first trip!

 

[Barbarossa]

It sounds like Dad hasn't been introduced to hiking. Washington, Whitney, Denali; it's all the same, right?

Maybe drag Dad up Garfield without the kids first. He might gain a little perspective that way.

 

[Grumpy]

Pay very close attention and give considerable thought to what Pete Hickey wrote.

G.

 

[mavs00]

I don't think you can really make a kid do something they don't like. Maybe once or twice, but not 48 (or 46) times.

Amen, Obviously you'd want to not overwhelm kids (or even adults) right out of the gate. However, if done right and with the emphasis on the right things, you don't have to "coddle them" either. I find many adults underestimate just how much energy a kid can have.

It's not always how far or high a hike is that is the deciding factor on whether it's fun for them or. Kids forget the physical pretty easy. I've seen my kids go from exhusted to downright goofy (complete with howling laughter) at the sight of a big fat (mountain size ADK) bullfrog on the side of the trail, as if it just erased 3 mind numbing trail miles from their memory banks completly.

I also watched three kids (11, 12 & 13 y/o) laugh and joke all the way to the summit of Allen (ADK) and back in one 12 hour day with less (or equal difficulty as the adults in the group). It was also the 12 y/o 4th high peak. Granted 6 & 8 is young, but certainly done the right way, some 4k's would be doable.

I like what WhiteMTHike had to say and bottom line Pete is dead on. You can get any kid to do a few big peaks, but in order to get them up such a lofty number as 46 or 48, they'll need to "catch the fever" just as any adult that wishes to do it.

It amazing, but I've found that kids are just as suscepatable to "summit fever" as we are. As for what you can do, I think everyone got it right.... not much other than to "make positive suggestions".

 

[forestgnome]

I would just take the kids camping and do some short dayhikes, like Mt. Potash. The kids will fall in love with hiking or they won't. If they were exhausted at the ledges on Mt. Welsh, they would probably be absolutely miserable way before they are near the summit of Mt. Garfied.

However, it will be a positive experience anyway, barring any injuries. The kids probably won't love it the way dad anticipates. The idea of peak-bagging a pre-designated list of mountains probably won't mean anything to them, either. But even if they have a miserable time, it will be good for their relationship. Only disasters such as infidelity or violence ruin families. A bad day of hiking with your kids is a great day.

And, hey, they might just fall in love with the whole thing!

Happy Trails to them

 

[Jaytrek57]

Um...ok a little different perspective.

I've taken a group of first time 8 year olds up Garfield on an overnight, which I think the original post said in this instance. Key word being overnight.

We didn't make the summit the first day, nor did we try the next. But all those kids, and I mean all (6), 1 year later, made it to the summit the next year, the second day, and out.

Funny, the year they made it to summit, the whole time they talked about the wonderful adventure they had the first year.

If you had concerns with the dad Madriver, perhaps volunteering to help out?

Also, I strongly recommend overnights as opposed to dayhikes with kids starting out.. It does not matter the distance. Most kids remember the experience an overnight can provide , rather than the "goal" a dayhike often becomes.

Just my $.02

Peace.

 

[Grumpy]

. . . Obviously you'd want to not overwhelm kids (or even adults) right out of the gate. However, if done right and with the emphasis on the right things, you don't have to "coddle them" either. I find many adults underestimate just how much energy a kid can have. . . .

I think there is a huge tendency to underestimate what kids can do and what they will endure. Some of Tim's (mavs00's) anecdotes, above, have a familiar ring to them . . ., for me.

Many years ago Mrs. G and I base camped a few days at Lake Colden in the Adirondacks with flatlander friends, who had their two boys, ages 7 and 9, in tow. On the march in from Adirondack Loj -- about the time we topped out on Avalanche Pass -- the kids' mom started getting on my case (a little) for leading us into a situation that was pushing her children too hard, even though the boys were doing well, chomping down a steady supply of candy, raisins, nuts and water and weren't complaining.

Next day, climbing Mt. Colden from the lake I was astonished to watch the 7-year old literally hop -- using real both-feet-together-at-once hops -- up the steep section beyond where that trail makes it's pronounced turn to the left, about 0.6 mi above the lake, when ascending. We adults were huffing and puffing. The kid put on quite a show, sometimes hopping back down the trail so he could hop up again. He kept going with that kind of energy all day, through the return trip via Lake Arnold and along the Opalescent. His older brother did fine, too, but was a bit more reserved.

G.