White gas or isobutane stove for winter camping?

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Wait, I'm confused- can you burn alcohol in a white gas stove?
Not generally. I am not aware of any stoves designed to use both (but I suppose they may exist). Most stoves are designed to be used with only a single fuel. (The MSR XGK EX is an exception: white gas / kerosene / jet / auto / diesel.)

Even if you have a stove which can use either, gasoline has more energy per weight (and volume) than alcohol. (Cars running on gasoline get more mpg than cars running on alcohol for the same reason.)

Doug
 
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I used alcohol as a general term since that is what some people call the white gas. My apologies for the confusion.

While some stoves will burn automotive gas and kerosene, they tend to be stinky and gum up faster, so I stick to Coleman Fuel, which is readily available, cheap, and clean. If I were traveling to foreign countries where it was unavailable, then I would use another fuel type, but there is little need here in the US.
 
Just one bit to add, the MSR Dragonfly is REALLY loud. I'm talking jet engine loud. Many people don't care and are happy to trade the noise for the ability to simmer. I rarely if ever simmer in the winter, so it's not a good trade off for me. But I have hiked with folks who like to cook cakes and pastries, even (especially?) in the winter, and their calculus is different. The Whisperlite and Whisperlite Int'l both hiss at a much more reasonable number of decibels, in my opinion, and these are my suggestions. Also, I've been a LOT of places in North America and have never once had a problem obtaining white gas/Coleman fuel. In fact, sometimes it seems the further out you are (Alaska bush, for example), the more likely you are to find random gallons of Coleman fuel in all kinds of strange places. So I wouldn't put too much stock in the ability to burn every kind of fuel imaginable. If you're travelling to other continents to hike, it may be different, I really don't know. To reiterate what I wrote in the other thread, i DON'T recommend any canister stove (i.e isobutane/propane) for winter use in the Whites. An alcohol stove COULD work, I suppose, as ethanol freezes at -173 degrees F, and denatured alcohol likely freezes at a lower temperature than that (if it's colder than that, you've got some serious problems). But I've never once heard of anyone using an alcohol stove to melt snow and boil the large volumes of water needed in winter, all of the designs I've seen are meant to boil a couple of cups of water at a time starting from above freezing. To provide some perspective, my stove is usually running for several hours straight in the evening to make water to rehydrate from the day, to make dinner, and to boil two additional liters to shove in my sleeping bag for the night. Making water is the usually my single most time consuming activity in winter.
 
Oh wow, I didn't realize you could get so much burn time out of a canister. How much does a full load weigh?

I know with my cat stove, I get about 10 minutes of burn per quarter cup, and I carry it in a plastic water bottle, so it's pretty light and compact. I've used it in the winter a couple of times, but only in temps down to the teens, and it was indeed used just to boil a couple cups of already (or still) liquid water. I read that the viscosity of denatured alcohol at -70 F is like maple syrup. I'm wondering if the temperature of the alcohol increases once the stove is lit (I know my stove is hot to the touch for a couple minutes after it goes out, so it stands to reason that it would conduct heat and warm up the fuel. If that is the case, it sounds like I can get away with keeping some fuel in my jacket to warm it up. The bigger issue seems to be how much fuel I'd have to carry to melt snow.

This thread has been very informational for me, so thanks everyone for contributing.
 
I'm wondering if the temperature of the alcohol increases once the stove is lit (I know my stove is hot to the touch for a couple minutes after it goes out, so it stands to reason that it would conduct heat and warm up the fuel. If that is the case, it sounds like I can get away with keeping some fuel in my jacket to warm it up.

Alcohol stoves work by boiling the alcohol, that's why they take awhile to get going. Remember that only vapor, not liquid fuel, will burn. In very cold conditions not enough vapor will evaporate to even light the stove, especially in a wind.

The problem with alcohol stoves is that they don't produce that much heat, and in cold weather the heat they do produce gets lost to the air almost as fast as it's produced.
 
Just one bit to add, the MSR Dragonfly is REALLY loud. I'm talking jet engine loud. Many people don't care and are happy to trade the noise for the ability to simmer.
I can simmer with my MSR Model G (predecessor to the XGK). Just use a low pressure in the fuel bottle and a delicate touch on the fuel valve. Perhaps this will work with some other cold-fuel pump stoves. And, of course, I can crank it up to melt snow.

The noise makes it easy for me to monitor the stove from a distance...

Also, I've been a LOT of places in North America and have never once had a problem obtaining white gas/Coleman fuel. .
Yes, it is readily available in North America--but not necessarily elsewhere. Kerosene is a common fuel in a lot of (non-NA) places. (Warning: third-world kerosene can be dirty requiring filtering and resulting in clogging.)

The multi-fuel capability would mostly be useful if one travels to such places, but it also might be useful in an emergency in NA.

Doug
 
I can simmer with my MSR Model G (predecessor to the XGK). Just use a low pressure in the fuel bottle and a delicate touch on the fuel valve. Perhaps this will work with some other cold-fuel pump stoves. And, of course, I can crank it up to melt snow.
Yes, the same technique works with the Whisperlites. I've made brownies, pizza, pancakes, etc this way. The key is to realize that pressuring the stove is effectively irreversible (that is, it takes a long time for the pressure in the bottle to decrease once you've pumped it in, unless you open the cap). So the initial prime and light need to be done with low pressure in the bottle. And don't crank it up until you're done all of the simmering you need to.
 
With the Whisperlites, the simmering is easily done on the standard Whisperlite and harder with the International due to the larger fuel tube. Neither were meant to simmer, but it can be done by reducing the pressure in the fuel bottle, like DougPaul mentioned.

The Whisperlite, Dragonfly, and XGK are all 'rocket stoves' (as is my Primus), which is what they sound like when under full burn. They are quite noisy, so if you're looking at cooking at a shelter when others are sleeping, it's probably not the best choice.

I tested my SnowPeak GigaPower (canister stove) years ago and found the smallest JetBoil canister (in summer) will provide 1 hour at full burn. I used 1.5 cannisters over a week on the HMW, but it was summer. Despite the company name (SnowPeak), I do not recommend it for winter.
 
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I use a Solo Camping Lighter*

* Hmm... The REI reviews on this lighter are pretty negative, but the Sierra Trading Post reviews are mixed but generally better. I haven't had any problems with mine, but I haven't used it very much. The flamethrowers certainly did their job.

Doug

Bide your time, if you dare. In a previous life I have issued almost as many refunds on this lighter as have been sold. :rolleyes:
 
Bide your time, if you dare. In a previous life I have issued almost as many refunds on this lighter as have been sold. :rolleyes:
Thanks for the data point. I always carry multiple backups.

I got them in part because I couldn't find the "flame thrower" lighters that I used to use, however, recently I think I found a source.

Doug
 
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