White Mountain Parking Fee Changes for 2010

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The FS occasionally places "Invitation to Pay" envelopes when people in lots don't pay, but I'm not sure if they prosecute scofflaws in WMNF like they do elsewhere.

Well, not anymore. At least not at Lincoln Woods. My buddy Salty and I, along with a group of others, parked at Lincoln Woods. Salty did not realiz it was a pay area (there are no prominent signs stating so and it had been about 20 years since he had been in this lot....well actually this lots previous incarnation.) Anyways, when we got back from doing Owl's Head he found a ticket taped....yes TAPED (it was a self adhesive packing slip packet)....for a nice sum of $75. A $50 fine and $25 admin. fee) He agrees it was his fault for not knowing it was a pay area (by which the USFS did not help by more prominently displaying it was) and would gladly have paid the $3. But this is just rediculous.

Brian
 
http://www.fs.fed.us/passespermits/fee-legislation-text.shtml#two, Section 3(f) RECREATION FEE AUTHORITY. How many fee-parking areas contain all six of the required elements? No toilet facility, perm or temp, at 19MBT for example. I don't recall one at the Hancock / hairpin lot either. Offhand, pretty much only Lincoln Woods and Mt. Clinton qualify... although I don't know about "security services" and they may or may not have picnic tables. I agree with Forest Gnome. Tim

I could care less about most of those amenities, but I sure would love to see a few more restrooms at the trailheads.

Brian[/QUOTE]
My last pass expired in October so I wa sin the free lots. The next hike should be in a pay lot. (likely Cabot)

I can't remember for sure for the Bunnell trailhead, but the Mt. Cabot parking is free. Although if you use it you might get shot by someone instead. :D

Well, not anymore. At least not at Lincoln Woods. My buddy Salty and I, along with a group of others, parked at Lincoln Woods. Salty did not realiz it was a pay area (there are no prominent signs stating so and it had been about 20 years since he had been in this lot....well actually this lots previous incarnation.) Anyways, when we got back from doing Owl's Head he found a ticket taped....yes TAPED (it was a self adhesive packing slip packet)....for a nice sum of $75. A $50 fine and $25 admin. fee) He agrees it was his fault for not knowing it was a pay area (by which the USFS did not help by more prominently displaying it was) and would gladly have paid the $3. But this is just rediculous.

This one is curious. A few years ago I parked at the winter Garfield trailhead and it snowed that day. For that reason the ranger did not see my pass on the dashboard of the car. However, I only received a warning to pay or I would be fined. I sent in a photocopy of my pass and it all worked out. :)
 
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Funny, I just went to the Forest Service website to look at the prices myself and was surprised to see the rates had not changed. I always thought of the "send us your comments" forms as a way for big brother to get a feel for how many people they were going to tick off. I didn't think that there would be enough opposition to the fee hikes to sway the policy makers.

That being said, I don't mind paying a use fee as long as it goes to useful projects. I know everyones idea of useful is different & I don't agree with everything the Forest Service does with my money. It seems to me (and I could be way off) that the fees are in place because our Federal, State & Local Governments have been steadily cutting funding to Public Lands.

I'm just glad I don't have to pay a higher rate because I live out of state. I pay more for a 5 or 7 day out of state fishing or hunting license (never mind the yearly license) than I do for a year long White Mountain Family Pass. Anyone who hunts and/or fishes in N.H., VT and ME and doesn't live there knows about this.

Has anyone considered a letter/e-mail writing campaign or a petition to tell the Forest service what users want them to do (or not to do) with the money they collect from users.

Joe.
 
Salty did not realiz it was a pay area (there are no prominent signs stating so and it had been about 20 years since he had been in this lot....well actually this lots previous incarnation.) Anyways, when we got back from doing Owl's Head he found a ticket taped....yes TAPED (it was a self adhesive packing slip packet)....for a nice sum of $75. A $50 fine and $25 admin. fee)

That's a new one on me (and not a good thing), anybody else ever get an actual ticket in the White Mtns?

If I was Salty, I would complain to the Forest Service about the lack of visibility of signs (did you start before dawn?) and the excessive multiple of the fee for a casual mistake. If that didn't work, I'd maybe even take it to Federal court in Concord - emphasizing that the WMNF does not provide a list of fee locations which in this day and age should be on their website. There are some other notes here which describe success elsewhere with this method.

Sen. Greeg once got the WMNF to cancel an unreasonable fine. Seems like hearing that you have to pay $75 for a parking ticket would discourage more visitors than $25,000 for a rescue as more people are used to getting parking tickets.
 
Hey Roy,

We pulled into Lincoln Woods at 8am, so there was plenty of light. Mike said he kept an eye out for a pay station or sign telling him to pay (I actually assumed he had an annual pass and had he said something I would have been able to tell him that LW is a pay site). But to be fair we parked in the area of the bathrooms on the road side. So perhaps the signage is up on the ranger station???? Not sure since, like I mentioned, he (nor I though I was not actually looking that hard assuming he had a pass already) actually saw anything. I can only once again assume that the ranger station is where one gets a pass, but on that I don't even know if it was open at the time. Wayyyyy to vauge if you ask me.

And I agree completely that a $75 ticket for a mere mistake over a matter of $3 is sending a very bad message. What happens to a couple that decides to take their little kids out to Franconia Falls (which I have seen for myself is a very common occurance), parks in this nice crowded lot with no indication that they need to pay a parking fee and then gets a $75 ticket? Well, it is probably one less family that won't be coming up to the Whites is my guess. :mad:

Brian
 
Hey Roy,

We pulled into Lincoln Woods at 8am, so there was plenty of light. Mike said he kept an eye out for a pay station or sign telling him to pay (I actually assumed he had an annual pass and had he said something I would have been able to tell him that LW is a pay site). But to be fair we parked in the area of the bathrooms on the road side. So perhaps the signage is up on the ranger station???? Not sure since, like I mentioned, he (nor I though I was not actually looking that hard assuming he had a pass already) actually saw anything. I can only once again assume that the ranger station is where one gets a pass, but on that I don't even know if it was open at the time. Wayyyyy to vauge if you ask me. Brian

I have a pass so I haven't had to pay there, but if I'm not mistaken the pay box is on your extreme left as you pull in, about the level of the first parking lot.
 
More than once I have let my pass expire (as it is now) and more than once I received an envelope under the wiper to remind me to pay – which then I would send in with a form and check for a pass. But I have also gone almost a year on an expired pass without any notices (in fee areas). This is apparently a new tactic.

I have seen mentioned here before (can’t remember by whom) that motorcycles are exempt. Does anyone have evidence of this? I know many motorcycles don’t even have a windshield but what is the reason for the exemption (if it is a fact)?

Also, as a refresher for those who may not have seen it or forgotten, a list was made of those areas NOT requiring a fee. Any new developments can be posted to that thread and I will update the list.
 
I would call the ranger station yourself, explain you did not see the tube, or that you didn't have exact change and would be happy to mail them the $3 owed if they dropped the fine. They may well just accept that, especially given past precedent of a friendly reminder.

Of all the places you ought to not forget, Lincoln Woods is the one ;) IMO, it is the only one which meets all six requirements for a fee charged.

Tim
 
I have a pass so I haven't had to pay there, but if I'm not mistaken the pay box is on your extreme left as you pull in, about the level of the first parking lot.

Yes, that's where it is. I almost missed it the first time I parked there. It's not that obvious, I wouldn't know to look for it if I wasn't already used to paying day fees at other locations.
 


I can't remember for sure for the Bunnell trailhead, but the Mt. Cabot parking is free. Although if you use it you might get shot by someone instead. :D



[/QUOTE]

Right, since it's not a USFS trail or parking area, there would be no reason to put a kiosk or sign there. The place doesn't exist.
 
Last summer I called the Gorham station and was told that motorcycles are also required to pay a fee...wonder if that will change this summer?? Like when I called to ask about a road being closed, when if was in fact open.....
 
Guess I got lucky -- the one time I forgot to pay a fee (Clinton Road parking for Pierce/Ike last December), I returned to a reminder on my windshield. No fine. I just put $3.00 in the envelope they provided and stuffed the whole thing in the pay box.

Maybe this is a brand-new policy. Yuck, what a pain. It's a tad much, in my opinion...
 
2 weeks ago we returned to an invite to pay, however we had a valid sticker. I took a photo showing the plate, and windshield, then a closeup of the stickers on the windshield. A few days later I stopped at the Headquarters (exit 27 on Re 93) and they took care of it.

Any chance you parked by the bathrooms in a handicapped spot? Or by the trash containers and blocked them? Either would explain the $75 fine.

In any case I would stop by the Headquarters and ask about it in person. Wait a few days as they only collect the envelopes/monies one daya week - on Wednesdays or Thursday I believe for the Lincoln Woods lot.
 
Any chance you parked by the bathrooms in a handicapped spot? Or by the trash containers and blocked them? Either would explain the $75 fine.

That was a theory we thought of two, but we checked and found we were not in a marked handicapped spot (and I just checked Joe's pictures which somewhat confirms this). And we were not near any trash containers.

Brian
 
Not in the Whites but I got a ticket in Sumter National Forest (SC) this past December. The "pay here" sign was located about 3" of the ground at the kiosk. This was out of site by a truck when i arrived. The officer refused to let me go pay the $3. however he gave me a break $35 plus the $25 handling charge. It could of bee up to $75 w/ the $25. The officer mentioned it was a no tolerance policy and that was the reason behind the ticket.

also, "parking ticket" was not in any of the wording of the ticket. It was failure to pay for service. Sounds like this is not just isolated to the WMNF.
 
Work pass.

Does anyone know if you can still work on trails in the WMNF and get your pass.? I have done it many times but now my Golden age pass takes care of it.
 
Anyways, when we got back from doing Owl's Head he found a ticket taped....yes TAPED (it was a self adhesive packing slip packet)....for a nice sum of $75. A $50 fine and $25 admin. fee)
Brian

I got slammed the same $75 at the Osceola TH by the Kanc on Monday. Used a Zipcar which doesn't have the annual pass in the windshield like my regular car. Didn't think anything of it until I came back and the self-adhesive $75 ticket sat on my windshield. Drove up to Hancock's hairpin parking lot to do the Hancock's and I parked next to a car which also had a red "VIOALTION" notice on the windshield.

If I knew I was gonna get slammed $75, I would have taken a leak in the parking lot for just $50 more.
 
I don't mind paying a parking fee if it helps defray the cost of maintanence, even if I don't always agree with certain specific projects. But $30 to stay at Cabot Cabin seems a bit excessive. I don't know who maintains other facilities, but I believe the Boy Scouts from Jefferson, NH maintain Cabot Cabin. So why should the Forest Service get $30/night? For that price I hope they have at least taken care of the mice in the ceiling.

Why should they kick out the upstairs tennants, you're only renting the downstairs!:p

I picked up my household annual pass for $25 on Sunday morning and put it right on. Sometimes I have thrown it on the dash below the windshield but thought better of it this time. $75 seems extremely high for the crime! Talk about how to make folks bitter over an oversight!. In this debit card world I rarely have 3 bucks on me so the pass is my best bet.
 
Hmmm. Outrage over a fine for not paying the posted fee and over the existance of the fee to begin with because a place might not have a bunch of fancy amenities. This from a group willing to pay huge sums of money for 6 pairs of fancy hiking boots, 12 packs, countless specialy gloves and jackets to cover any conditions, a trip to some mountain on the other side of the world for the experience and a fee to some company so you can post pictures of all the adventures.

My priorities must be totally screwed up. :confused:
 
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