Winter Camping Questions

[dvbl]

1) Besides having less mesh and having more poles, how is a winter tent different from a 3-season tent.
2) Assuming one wishes to continue breathing throughout the night, how does one keep his face warm through a brutally cold night in the sleeping bag?
3) Ladies, this would require some slick marksmanship skill on your part, but by all means feel free to read along if you wish. Does anyone take into the tent an empty bottle (perhaps an old 1 quart apple juice bottle) in order to avoid having to leave the tent at 2am in order to ...ummmm... well ... ummm ... I think you know what I'm getting at here (maybe I should've made this item #1 instead of #3). If solo, no problem. If with a partner, the partner must be very understanding.
4) What should be taken into the sleeping bag overnight when it's a hurtin kinda cold? camera/batteries, boot liners, wife/girlfriend/both, etc?
5) Any other winter camping lessons learned through experience?

 

[Chip]

1) My winter tent is a Sierra Designs Alpha CD. Last week with my 2 boys, I recorded a low outside the tent of 22' and a low inside the tent of 33', so a winter tent can be much warmer. They are also beefier to stand up to winds and snowfall weight.

2) To keep my face and head warm I use a fleece or poly hood and a silk or fleece bag liner that I can pull over my face and breath into, if needs be.

3) Yes and true but I normally get up and out anyway.

4) A full, hot Nalgene of water, sealed tight. Boot liners, if you have them. My current boots don't freeze too bad so I normally just leave them in the tent.

5) Bring a book or cards as you may be spending more time in the tent than you are used to. Bring some high fat snacks into the tent. Allow more time to set up and break down.

Enjoy !

 

[AOC-1]

I'll start with a discrete solution to question/problem number 3:

http://www.rei.com/product/726.htm?vcat=REI_SSHP_WOMENS_GEAR_TOC

 

[Tom Rankin]

I'll start with a discrete solution to question/problem number 3:

And it says:

"Helps you avoid hazards like unsanitary restrooms, uneven terrain, poison oak and ivy and rough weather conditions".

I heard about a woman who answered the call of nature in a field full of nettles! Ladies, you have my sympathies!

 

[Pete_Hickey]

1) My tent of choice in the winter is not a tent, but an igloo or snow cave.

2) Not an issue in an igloo or snow cave, and it never really bothered me just sleeping on a pad on the ground outside. Maybe the beard helps. I never had my beard freeze onto my bag (although, while commuting, I have had my baklava freeze onto my beard.

3) In an igloo/ice cave, you just roll over, and go against the wall. Just don't make a habit of this and do it in a friends tent sometime.

4) Chip has it good.

5) Don't expect things to go fast.

 

[pilgrim]

...Does anyone take into the tent an empty bottle (perhaps an old 1 quart apple juice bottle) in order to avoid having to leave the tent at 2am in order to ...

Use a Nalgene (light, doesn't leak) but MARK IT WELL.

I even use p bottle in the summer, because I'm lazy and don't want to bring any bugs back in the tent.

 

[teejay]

Freezing

I have had my baklava freeze onto my beard.

This happens with pizza, too. And balalaikas.

teejay

 

[teejay]

Or, dvbl

instead of the above suggestions, you can just open a special hole in your tent. Don't ask me how I know.

teejay

 

[expat]

Tips

1) I've never used a 4-season tent, but have spent many windy nights sub-zero without a problem. -30 is the lowest temp I've been out in, but it wasn't too bad. To me, I don't think that the additional weight of the 4-season is worth it. Of course, the three season tents weren't the all-mesh type, and weighed in the 5-7 lb range.
2) I usually wear either a balaclava pulled up, or a neck gaiter. Don't pull your nose or mouth down into your sleeping bag, as you'll exhaust too much moisture into the bag.
3) I get up and step out. I used to put on some clothes before I went out, but now I go out in whatever I've been sleeping in. I found that I got as cold while dressing/undressing for this, as when I just go and get back in fast. I do pull on my camp booties.
4) Clothes you're going to get into in the morning; a full bottle of hot water; any gloves, hats, etc that you need to dry out (but not too much); food;earplugs. When you wake up at night, eat some food, and drink some water. This will keep your energy level up.
5) After you've set up camp, change into dry clothes. Lay out your sleeping bag as soon as possible during camp setup, so that it can loft. When you eat, eat about 25% more than you really want. Plan on a recipe only feeding half the number it would if you weren't camping in the winter. Drink often. Warm Jello is a good winter drink. Dig a foot pit in front of the door of your tent. Dig a trench to stand in while you cook on the full-height snow. This way you won't have to bend so far to cook. Wear earplugs to sleep. Have a thin pair of gloves for cooking, starting the stove, etc. Put your stove in the freezer overnight, then test it while it's cold, before the trip. Wear a medium-sized fanny pack backwards while you have your backpack on to store your gloves, hat, some food, etc. while you hike. If you have a down jacket or vest, when you take it off for the night, put it around the foot of your sleeping bag and zip it up to add a little warmth there. Use a full-length sleeping pad, and consider a second sleeping pad, too. I'm sure there's stuff others can add.

 

[expat]

while commuting, I have had my baklava freeze onto my beard.

You're not supposed to eat greek dessert while bicycling!

 

[lattinhill]

Keep that Nalgene bottle of hot water in a bottle cozy. Releases the heat slowly and makes it last nearly all night.

Dave

 

[cbcbd]

1) Winter tents are made to withstand high winds and weight from snowloading. IMO, you'll be fine with a 3-season in most NE camping, unless you like to camp out above treeline.
2) I don't. I just sinch up the bag so there is a hole big enough for my mouth and nose. I just don't like having something on my face when I sleep.
3) I haven't been camping yet in a cold that is downright dangerous to be out in with just my night clothes, so I just leave the tent and go. If you're bivying on a windy icy ledge then you might want a pee bottle for your safety - just buy a square nalgene specifically for that - no mistaking that! Then just throw the bottle inside your bag for more warmth
4) Camera is not necessary (although the cold is not friendly on lcds), but yes on thebatteries. I put my 2 nalgenes (one in cozy) with boiling water, boots (inside my insideout sleeping bag stuff sack) or boot liners, clothes for the morning, and contact lenses and solution.
5) Exercise a little bit before getting into your sleeping bag; if you have to pee in the middle of the night, don't wait, do it-it'll keep you warmer; there is plenty of night time in winter - take your time, enjoy your dinner and eat well; plan to take around 8oz of fuel/person/day (assuming using a liquid fuel like white gas)- you'll use it all heating up all that hot water for your nalgenes; if you can set it up so you can do all your cooking from inside your tent while laying in your sleeping bag - bonus!! especially on cold mornings

Doug

 

[cbcbd]

Keep that Nalgene bottle of hot water in a bottle cozy. Releases the heat slowly and makes it last nearly all night.

Dave

Or, if you wake up in the middle of the night with a chill you can remove the cozy to turn on the afterburners (someone told me that tip... I forget who)

 

[DSettahr]

Four season tents aren't really designed to be warmer; any tent will hold warm air inside. Rather, four season tents are stronger, as mentioned, but they are also designed with gaps in the rain fly higher above the ground than a three season tent, so that you get a constant flow of fresh air even if it snows a significant amount during the night.

 

[spider solo]

#4

1)
4) What should be taken into the sleeping bag overnight when it's a hurtin kinda cold? camera/batteries, boot liners, wife/girlfriend/both, etc?

hurtin kind of cold.... I won't be fiddlin with a camera.
The boot liners.... well they could get lost in any "confusion"

And for the latter part of the sentence...I would say both.... I think staying warm would be the easy part....staying out of hot water....now that would be quite the trick !

 

[Chip]

Four season tents aren't really designed to be warmer; any tent will hold warm air inside.

I've never temp tested my regular tents in the cold, I'd be VERY happily surprised if they held as much heat as my winter tent as they are 3 lbs lighter ! I shall test and report !

This is a great Princeton.edu "Outdoor Action Guide To Winter Camping", an excellent primer.

 

[Lawn Sale]

1) My 4 season tent is the LL Bean North Col Expedition, which sleeps 3 with gear, weighs 10 pounds, and has more guy lines than all my other tents combined, and they're longer so skis can be used as anchors. The body is made is a breathable nylon and the fly is all encompassing with a cooking vent in the vestibule.

2) I have been tenting at -40° over a long weekend in Canada. I did not use anything over my face as it just started to ice up, resulting in the ice keeping me awake. When we awoke in the morning (me and my older brother), there was a layer of snow all over everything inside the tent from the moisture. My mouth area was the only skin that was exposed, and it suffered no damage. Be prepared with extra sleeping bags or blankets as the ratings are sketchy at those temps. I used 2 nested bags with a 3rd liner over everything and used a Thermarest on the base. Vents aren't necessary as the moisture will freeze long before the vents can transport it.

3) I just get up and go, waiting only keeps you awake. Hurry so the bag will still be warm when you crawl back into it.

4) Definitely a water bottle (it'll freeze solid otherwise, even if you put warm water in it, bury it in your pack, and have it in an insulated holder), headlight, clothes for the next day, and any electronic gear you don't want frozen and potentially damaged.

5) Some tidbits:
- Propane does not flow at temps that cold, so be prepared for it (in case you are thinking of bringing a heater).
- A self priming stove is fine, but must be watched over closely as the jets like to freeze while running when the pressure is reduced.
- Beer buried 2' down in the snow will still be unfrozen the next day, and chilled to perfection! Water will have a 1/4" ice skim over it.
- When cooking, don't use a large pot with a lot of food in it as the outside of anything liquid will freeze while the rest of the food is boiling in the center (we found this out with the chipped beef).
- External battery packs on a long wire are you friend, even if they are a little heavy.
- Use a severe winter oil in your car (0W or 5W) or it may not start when you get back until it hits about -20 or so.
- Everything (tents, clothing, trees, ice, etc) cracks and groans, even without the wind.

 

[sleeping bear]

Spend 11 bucks on this book and you'll learn more than you could learn if this thread was 10 pages long.

The first 50 pages is about cold related injuries, heat loss, stoves, skiis and food. The last 50 pages is just camping. This is one of my favorite books.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

....- Propane does not flow at temps that cold, so be prepared for it (in case you are thinking of bringing a heater). ......

Huh???? How cold are you talking about? Or are you thinking butane? Aren't al the huts in the Whites (as well as many homes) equipped with propane for cooking (heat) Or are you thinking of propane used as an auto fuel, which works somewhat differently?

FWIW, I would never take any heating apatarus. Wasted weight. Little insulation to keep in that heat. I'd rather waste the weight on something like a tortilla press of something like that.

 

[Oldsmores]

People have mentioned that things take longer in the winter. IMHO, one of the biggest components of this is the length of time it takes to maintain a water supply. Even if you're near running water, you're likely to have to break through the ice to get to it, or to make a safe path to it. Also, filters freeze up, so you spend a lot of time melting and boiling snow and ice for water. I find it helpful to fill as many water bottles as possible in the morning and at night when you've got the stove running anyway. Nalgene cozies (sp?) are a must, and store bottles upside down to keep the threads from freezing.
In the summer I use my metal pan to mix food in. In the winter, food gets cold too quickly in the metal pan, so I bring an extra plastic bowl for anything that can't be prepared in the package (instant oatmeal, etc.)
Setting up your stove just outside the tent so you can cook from inside is the only way to go (especially in the morning), but be careful! Tents are flammable, and spilling a pot of water in the tent can be disasterous (don't ask me how I know this).
As to what to bring in to the sleeping bag - anything with batteries. If you don't have an LED headlamp, get one. Winter nights are looooong!