Winter Camping

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sierra said:
Just a thought, winter boots can give you sticker shock if you go with a good boot. Personally, boots is one area that I consider critical. Regardless of the type of boot you end up with IME in North Conway has a large selection of mountaineering boots downstairs on consignment. You just might score an expensive boot for a considerable savings and at the very least, you can see a variety of examples and even try a bunch on for fit reference. I was down there just a short time age and they had a few good Koflach plastics, while I don't care for plastics anymore, they are warm, you can sleep with the liners and your feet will never get wet in them. Not to mention, they take a crampon with ease.
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Good to know. Not being able to go anywhere and try the boots on was what essentially derailed the search last year with my concern about narrowness. I don't mind buying new but it would definitely be nice to try several brands and get some expert guidance on the process. IME is the place on the right just after Joe Jones heading out of town right?
 
DayTrip said:
I have that covered. When I first started Winter hiking I got a 90 L pack (partly because I was carrying way too much stuff, partly because I love the comfort of the heavy strap systems and partly because I can't stand having crap dangling all over the outside of the pack). I've since reduced the amount of gear and gone to a 65L pack I really love so one way or the other the pack is covered. I also made a pulk last year, although I did not get a chance to test it.
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I also use a 90 liter pack, but it's not big enough to carry my tent inside. I lash it to some straps on the bottom. Your's probably has a sleeping bag compartment and if you get a new sleeping bag, be sure it fits in that compartment.

IME also rents tents, sleeping bags and double boots.
 
DayTrip said:
Good to know. Not being able to go anywhere and try the boots on was what essentially derailed the search last year with my concern about narrowness. I don't mind buying new but it would definitely be nice to try several brands and get some expert guidance on the process. IME is the place on the right just after Joe Jones heading out of town right?
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The guy's in there are great and they can really help with your needs of a good fit brand wise. The mistake a lot of people make, is they hear of a brand people love, then they go out and buy it. Some makes will not fit everyone, no matter how much you like the boot, fit is everything. If you go in there, there's a guy been there forever, named Alec, he is a really a big help. Another thing to keep in mind, they don't stock much, but they order whatever I want for me, if it doesn't fit, back it goes and we try again, ( although, I chip in for shipping on the second pair, just to be fair.).
 
sierra said:
The guy's in there are great and they can really help with your needs of a good fit brand wise. The mistake a lot of people make, is they hear of a brand people love, then they go out and buy it. Some makes will not fit everyone, no matter how much you like the boot, fit is everything. If you go in there, there's a guy been there forever, named Alec, he is a really a big help. Another thing to keep in mind, they don't stock much, but they order whatever I want for me, if it doesn't fit, back it goes and we try again, ( although, I chip in for shipping on the second pair, just to be fair.).
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Cool. When the silly season (aka foliage) is over I'll try to make a stop in there. Thanks.
 
A general observation on double plastic boots is if you have wide feet you may not be able to find a double plastic boot that fits. I struggled for several years and even IME couldn't find a good fit. Their approach was to go with a larger size boot to get the width and then pad the interior of the boot to take up the extra volume. The net result to that approach is not good, the toes sit way back from the front of the boot making front pointing darn close to impossible and definitely fatiguing. The gait will cut your mileage way back. I did get a pair of Scarpas that were about as wide as I could get but they also tended to be oversized. I used them for a winter and eventually had to stop using them as my feet were getting trashed. I have been using various soft boots that come in extra wide successfully for winter day hiking but find that they do eventually get damp making multiday trips difficult.
 
I have a pair of Asolo plastic boots that I had widened at the local ski shop. They were able to widen them just in the toe box - right where I needed the room - and they are now amazingly comfortable.
 
I think it should be noted that boots are primarily chosen depending on where you're going and what tools you're attaching to your feet.

Plastic AT boots, plastic tele boots, plastic mountaineering boots, insulated step in crampon compatible leather mountaineering boots, leather tele boots, insulated NNN-BC boots, single layer leather boots with 1/2 or 3/4 shanks, Sorel style pac boots, and even mukluks all have their place in the winter. Steger crossed Antactica in mukluks and Berwyn bindings. Messner used plastic mountaineering boots and AT bindings. Plenty of choices.

I'm a big fan of VB socks, but I'm repeating myself now...
 
I love winter camping, although I haven't had many opportunities to do it the past few years.
A couple suggestions that I haven't seen mentioned:

Vermont State Parks allow winter camping, many have lean-tos that are less than a mile walk from parking sites. They would offer a great way to test the water without much risk. For example, at Elmore Park, which happens to be near my home, you could easily walk in to camp, and it also has great winter hiking and cross-country skiing.

If you want a relatively cheap, light and durable winter shelter, check out the military model Gore-Tex bivy sack made by Tennier, it has served me well for many years. It's no-frills, and small, but you can get one new for less than $50 and it will last. I also carry mine as an emergency shelter on winter day hikes.
 
Cristobal said:
I love winter camping, although I haven't had many opportunities to do it the past few years.
A couple suggestions that I haven't seen mentioned:

Vermont State Parks allow winter camping, many have lean-tos that are less than a mile walk from parking sites. They would offer a great way to test the water without much risk. For example, at Elmore Park, which happens to be near my home, you could easily walk in to camp, and it also has great winter hiking and cross-country skiing.

If you want a relatively cheap, light and durable winter shelter, check out the military model Gore-Tex bivy sack made by Tennier, it has served me well for many years. It's no-frills, and small, but you can get one new for less than $50 and it will last. I also carry mine as an emergency shelter on winter day hikes.
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Funny you mention this. I was actually going to post a similar question today. I have an OR Gore Tex bivy sack that I carry on Winter day hikes and was wondering about it's suitability as an overnight shelter. In particular, I was wondering if I could use this in conjunction with a hammock for colder temps (say like 20's) versus getting another tent. I tested the bivy in my back yard on a day where it was like -20 deg F with some breeze wearing what I would normally have on day hike (my z-fold, Gore Tex shell and pants, the usual layers, etc) and I was quite comfortable in it for over 30 minutes (although it does give me a bit of a claustrophobic feeling).

It seems like most hammock campers go the quilt route. The ones I have looked at are very expensive, really aren't all that light and I'm not sure I get the whole hanging of the quilt outside the hammock. It would seem a hell of a lot easier to use my winter sleeping bag (or dress in the close I already have like my test run) in the bivy and roll out either my inflatable sleeping pad or my z-fold inside the hammock so I am in contact with it. The more I read about hammock camping the more I want to try it because of the huge benefit of being able to set it up almost anywhere, which allows for getting closer to summits or other areas that are not possible in a tent due to rough and/or irregular ground. Need to research more.
 
DayTrip said:
The more I read about hammock camping the more I want to try it because of the huge benefit of being able to set it up almost anywhere, which allows for getting closer to summits or other areas that are not possible in a tent due to rough and/or irregular ground.
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Actually, in the context of a full-on mountain winter, the benefit you cite cam diminish almost to the point of elimination: when there's 3'-8' of snow under you, the placement options for your bag/pad/bivy (or tent) can actually be more numerous than the hammock placement options, which are constrained by the availability of sufficiently tall/strong trees with correct spacing. In short, the deep snow eliminates rough ground issues along with a good number of incline issues.

In practice, this turning of the tables is proportionally related to the elevation you're at. In the Whites in a typical January, the forest floor at 1500' may have a foot or two of snow on it, which delivers only basic terrain smoothing, but will offer numerous hammock tree options. As you get higher, the snow options increase (steadily deeper snow) and the tree synergies decrease -- petering out completely as krumholz takes over.

Alex
 
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alexmtn said:
Actually, in the context of a full-on mountain winter, the benefit you cite cam diminish almost to the point of elimination: when there's 3'-8' of snow under you, the placement options for your bag/pad/bivy (or tent) can actually be more numerous than the hammock placement options, which are constrained by the availability of sufficiently tall/strong trees with correct spacing. In short, the deep snow eliminates rough ground issues along with a good number of incline issues.

In practice, this turning of the tables is proportionally related to the elevation you're at. In the Whites in a typical January, the forest floor at 1500' may have a foot or two of snow on it, which delivers only basic terrain smoothing, but will offer numerous hammock tree options. As you get higher, the snow options increase (steadily deeper snow) and the tree synergies decrease -- petering out completely as krumholz takes over.

Alex
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Fair point. My initial foray into Winter camping is likely going to be more of a "deep shoulder season" effort to extend Fall longer and get things rolling earlier in the Spring. So I'm imagining temps say 10-20 deg overnight, maybe some snow cover but certainly not established deep Winter powder conditions. Hoping to maybe get the season into DEC and start up again in early MAR or something like that.

I may still go with a tent but the hammock idea really has me intrigued at the possibilities. I got one of those Kammok Roo hammocks recently and I love it. More comfortable than anything I've ever tried (I'm fairly tall) and it pitches stupid fast (maybe 1 minute tops - it takes longer to pull it out of the stuff sack than it does to hang). But before I commit to quilts and other related stuff I have to decide at what point the convenience of set up is overwhelmed by the expense of getting a ton of stuff I don't have (quilts, a better tarp, etc). If I go the conventional tent route the only new piece of gear I really need is a 4 season tent. I have the other stuff.
 
If, and it's a big IF the way snow has been lately, there is a lot of deep snowcover, the camp setup (cook area, tent, layout, etc.) can't be beat.

People would ask us why we'd winter camp, and the answer was always:

No bugs, no mud, and 1100 square miles of places to easily pitch a tent.

I'm glad you started this as I always still find things to learn or improve upon.
 
I'm a tent guy. I spend a lot of time in it when winter camping and like having the room, the ability to cook in the vestibule in bad weather, the room to change and dry clothes. I like reading with a light, having a cocktail and spreading my stuff out. I spent a week in a hammock once in the summer, many years ago. easy to set up, yes, comfortable, very, but in the winter it wouldn't work for me. Not to mention if a storm blows in with snow and high winds, would a hammock still be adequate? Disclaimer, I've only used one once, so I'm not dissing them, just out of my wheel house.
P.S. My tent is the Sierra Designs Tiros. It's not light (9lbs) but it is bombproof, that is the what I want in my gear.
 
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sierra said:
I'm a tent guy. I spend a lot of time in it when winter camping and like having the room, the ability to cook in the vestibule in bad weather, the room to change and dry clothes. I like reading with a light, having a cocktail and spreading my stuff out. I spent a week in a hammock once in the summer, many years ago. easy to set up, yes, comfortable, very, but in the winter it wouldn't work for me. Not to mention if a storm blows in with snow and high winds, would a hammock still be adequate? Disclaimer, I've only used one once, so I'm not dissing them, just out of my wheel house.
P.S. My tent is the Sierra Designs Tiros. It's not light (9lbs) but it is bombproof, that is the what I want in my gear.
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All good points. I thought hammocks were lighter weight than they actually are but by the time you add quilts and other crap the savings really isn't all that much difference with a decent tent. Most "bomber" tents to use your term are 8 lbs and up. Other than car camping at a campground all of my back country camping is an overnight so I have to decide if that will be changing before I commit to gear. I think on multi-day stuff I would indeed prefer a tent. The hammock is definitely getting worked into my fair weather hiking though as a light option for near summit camping and other options. Flexibility offers a lot of possibilities.
 
DayTrip said:
All good points. I thought hammocks were lighter weight than they actually are but by the time you add quilts and other crap the savings really isn't all that much difference with a decent tent. Most "bomber" tents to use your term are 8 lbs and up. Other than car camping at a campground all of my back country camping is an overnight so I have to decide if that will be changing before I commit to gear. I think on multi-day stuff I would indeed prefer a tent. The hammock is definitely getting worked into my fair weather hiking though as a light option for near summit camping and other options. Flexibility offers a lot of possibilities.
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My tent sleeps 2. If your going solo, I'm sure you can find a great tent then is lighter and smaller.
 
I'd caution the need for a "bomber" tent. Doesn't sound like you are going to be camping high on the shoulder of Washington, so I wouldn't concern myself too much with wind factor. You do need to care for snow loads, but many step-walled tents are fine here. Especially for solo.

You can get a good tent for 5 lbs. Now, I'd often go with a friend who is a Moss fanatic. Beautifully constructed, bombproof tents. Heavy, but we'd each take a piece so it split up OK.
 
Since this is a broad topic and it doesn't appear to be discussed a lot here yet, what about sleeping bags? What's really needed? 0? -10? -20? Duck vs Goose? Treated vs Non-treated? Brand recommendations? Assume we're camping in the woods <3k feet. I'm amazed at the selection and prices - seems good to shop around.
 
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