Another "Donation" to the S&R Fund ? - Mt Madison Rescue

[Tim Seaver]

Quote Originally Posted by Tim Seaver
24 oz. of water, a warm layer and a shell, and a couple of pinch flashlights

All items that the subject did not have.

This is true - but it wasn't the lack of those items that precipitated the rescue - it was getting lost, well before nightfall, and having medical issues. Not related to being cold, thirsty, or hungry.
( Just to note - I certainly would not advocate hitting any trail in the afternoon without a light or the other items)

Walsh called 9-1-1 for help at 5:45 p.m. Monday to report he was lost and having medical issues.

This also brings up another interesting aspect of the slippery slope - if you have a known "medical condition" that could disable you suddenly when out on the trail, could you be considered reckless by simply by the act of heading up the mountain?

 

[DougG]

This also brings up another interesting aspect of the slippery slope - if you have a known "medical condition" that could disable you suddenly when out on the trail, could you be considered reckless by simply by the act of heading up the mountain?

YES. And 'reckless' is a very measured and sensitive word to use for such a person.

 

[Fisher Cat]

All hail the F&G officers, AV Search & Rescue, RMC caretaker, and AMC S&R, I certainly hope the man involved does so.

 

[Tom Rankin]

YES. And 'reckless' is a very measured and sensitive word to use for such a person.

Anyone could have a 'medical condition'. A frequent symptom of heart attacks is - sudden death. 21 year old kids die from heart attacks. Strokes strike without warning. Epilepsy, seizures, etc., can come on very suddenly. Asthma attacks, bee sting allergies, etc....

If this is the case, no one should hike.

(note: sarcasm intended)

 

[Tim Seaver]

Just to be clear in case there is some confusion, I myself would not consider having a "medical condition" to be "reckless".

All the same, these signs should be updated some day with language that people can take seriously, especially the first line:

 

[Tim Seaver]

More details emerge

http://www.unionleader.com/article/20120509/NEWS07/705099952

Money quote:

Maybe it’s just because we live around here and most of us know not to go in the mountains unless we’re prepared; I don’t know.

Edit : Another slightly different account here:

http://www.conwaydailysun.com/index.php/newsx/local-news/89996-rescue-050912

 

[expat]

legally?

I'm sure it will be soon when a lawyer gets involved in getting someone off from having to pay a fine. I suspect some defense like that the USFS creates an invitation to hike by maintaining trail head parking, posting information about the area, and that the state is also involved by placing advertising in magazines and newspapers (have you seen the ads in Outside magazine) that show the beauty of being in New Hampshire's hills, and show people camping next to lakes, hiking on trails, etc., encouraging people to get away into the woods.

Sounds like a pretty compelling defense to me for those cases that are marginal, probably not this one.

 

[peakbagger]

I cant resist

Go to

http://www.visitnh.gov/

Does the family on the home page have appropriate hike safe gear? "Mom" doesnt appear to, but maybe "dad" and the "kids" are carrying it all (nice "family", must be a mother days photo). It appears as though they are doing a high risk activity, I.E. hiking off trail so let hope they dont need a rescue. The code says you are responsible for yourself so "moms" out of luck as nowhere does it say that group gear is acceptable

Now click on "what to do" and "outdoor adventure" for hiking and climbing . It does reference ""Hike Safe" in three clicks

Now got to http://hikesafe.com/

Still no reference I could readily find to the "Pay for Rescue if you dont follow the code or if the legislature is in session" clause.

So a tourist coming to states premier website for tourism, has to do multiple click throughs to find what are recomendations for equipment to go hiking with and no where is there a reference to "or else". Anyone else consider this ineffective communication? Sort of like not posting a speed limit and then pulling people over as they should know the state motor vehicle code?

End Commentary

 

[bikehikeskifish]

http://www.visitnh.gov/

Does the family on the home page have appropriate hike safe gear?

Note: You will get a random family image here - my first visit, they were all riding boogie boards in surf. Might have to hit refresh a few times to find the hiking family.

Tim

 

[MadRiver]

Let's see, they are all wearing cotton and only mom has a small water bottle. Yep, seen that a lot lately.

 

[Tim Seaver]

I cant resist
Now got to http://hikesafe.com/

Interesting that the main HikeSafe "Hiker Responsibility Code" page is not linked to the "Rescue" section of the site where it mentions charging for rescue- you have to click on the "Rescue" link separately.
Also a bit curious, on the "What to do if lost" page, there is no mention whatsoever of when you should attempt to call for assistance ....other than blowing on a whistle.

 

[Maddy]

Hiker rescued after getting lost in Presidentials wearing T-shirt and rubber boots -Local news
In this article it states that "Walsh reported he was having medical issues, had lost the trail, run out of water, did not have a flashlight and did not have adequate clothing."
Providing Walsh is not being misquoted, it appears he had no problem listing all the items that were missing that might have helped keep him safe.
Too little too late?

As for extra food in your pack, this could be critical if it's a bit chilly out. Hypothermia sets in, and food is fuel. Seems like a reasonable expectation that one would carry a few extra high energy tidbits.

This dude was going "light and fast" and got himself into a some serious trouble. In fact I don't think he could have gone any "lighter" unless he wore sandals in place of rubber boots. Perhaps his medical condition kept him from "going fast". OR the rubber boots might have slowed him down some. I wonder if he survived because he was not carrying a lot of weight.

"Wisher" once shared these fine words on VFTT. I was so impressed I saved them.
“The way I see it, someone should be free to take whatever risks they want with their own neck.”
-Wisher on VFTT
Agreed and to this I will add .. please don't whine, and don't forget your checkbook!
To all the rescuers, including F&G....many thanks for your hard work!

 

[Mike P.]

I cant resist

Go to

http://www.visitnh.gov/

Does the family on the home page have appropriate hike safe gear? "Mom" doesnt appear to, but maybe "dad" and the "kids" are carrying it all (nice "family", must be a mother days photo). It appears as though they are doing a high risk activity, I.E. hiking off trail so let hope they dont need a rescue. The code says you are responsible for yourself so "moms" out of luck as nowhere does it say that group gear is acceptable

Now click on "what to do" and "outdoor adventure" for hiking and climbing . It does reference ""Hike Safe" in three clicks

Now got to http://hikesafe.com/

Still no reference I could readily find to the "Pay for Rescue if you dont follow the code or if the legislature is in session" clause.

So a tourist coming to states premier website for tourism, has to do multiple click throughs to find what are recomendations for equipment to go hiking with and no where is there a reference to "or else". Anyone else consider this ineffective communication? Sort of like not posting a speed limit and then pulling people over as they should know the state motor vehicle code?

End Commentary

Judging by the width of the cut, appears they are on trail, a ski trail. Are they actually a real family or four actors/actresses? Wearing gore-tex would have made them less visibily appealing. promoting wearing shorts in that tall grass looks like an invitaion to bring home ticks. Can I send my medical bills to Concord? (last I knew, West Nile had reached southern NH but may not have reached the Whites, I see Lyme has reached the state though http://www.nhstateparks.org/experience/hiking/)

In looking at some of the links, the quick link for opening & closing dates for the state parks says its for 2010 while it actually points to 2011's dates. Two kids with dark hair & Dad, not sure that's Mom.... but carrying nothing but her store bought water bottle seems like a nice Mom's day gesture, although most WMNF trees aren't that green on Mom's Day. Maybe at Sunapee.

As another poster mentioned, the state seems quite willing to invite us up to spend our tourism dollars. I like that defense, can I use it? Maybe the ads need to promote safety first. Nice to see though the state is using traditional advertising methodology.... (getting the asbestos suit ready...)

 

[Little Rickie]

If news articles were clearly factual with no slant or bias to: attract, entertain or emote readers then there would be no fodder for forums, news papers advertising revenue & suscriptions would go down and the news writers would lose their job. That wouldn't be good for enconomy an I'd have to do real work during the day instead of looking busy at my keyboard.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

<ModeratorHat>
Let us not descend into discussion of funding for NH F&G (there are plenty of other threads on this topic), but rather discuss specifics of this particular rescue.
</ModeratorHat>

Thanks,
Tim

 

[erugs]

There must be a lot of us trying to look at that site. It's taking a long time to load. Their number crunchers will be pretty excited about the number of "hits" their site is getting.

I saw the photo in question only once, but agree they are hiking on a ski trail -- better not be Cannon. I thought the photo was pretty strange, but it might have been more realistic if "daughter's" hair was pink or orange. They don't have belts fastened on their packs because belts increase the showing of any belly roll, never a good sight on a publicity photo. Ski trails are never easy to hike. I think the boy might actually be wearing knee high rubber boots! Good they are carrying water, but how about using refillable bottles which are better fort he environment? What a foolish picture. I hope someone didn't get paid big bucks for that. On the other hand, I loved the photo of the kid in the ocean waters. Reminded me of my son at that age.

 

[Tom Rankin]

"Wisher" once shared these fine words on VFTT. I was so impressed I saved them.
“The way I see it, someone should be free to take whatever risks they want with their own neck.”
-Wisher on VFTT
Agreed and to this I will add .. please don't whine, and don't forget your checkbook!
To all the rescuers, including F&G....many thanks for your hard work!

"Wisher"'s views are his own, but to keep the rescuers that you admire out of the woods, and out of harms way, people should do all they can to avoid needing a rescue. Rescuers are obligated to go out and search for "Wisher"s, whether he/she is smart/stupid/reckless/prepared/healthy/sick etc.

 

[Tim Seaver]

Crikey

Light and Fast...with knee high rubber boots? I think that characterization is a bit off, to be kind.

1. This person does not exactly sound like somebody who runs around the mountains on a regular basis, if at all
2. Light and Fast certainly does not imply having no warm gear, food, lighting, knowledge of the terrain, etc.

 

[Red Oak]

Light and Fast...with knee high rubber boots? I think that characterization is a bit off, to be kind.

1. This person does not exactly sound like somebody who runs around the mountains on a regular basis, if at all
2. Light and Fast certainly does not imply having no warm gear, food, lighting, knowledge of the terrain, etc.

Good point,big difference between some one doing a pemi loop and this bro!

 

[Maddy]

"Wisher"'s views are his own, but to keep the rescuers that you admire out of the woods, and out of harms way, people should do all they can to avoid needing a rescue. Rescuers are obligated to go out and search for "Wisher"s, whether he/she is smart/stupid/reckless/prepared/healthy/sick etc.

I interpreted this a different way. I totally agree with what you are saying.
I looked at it more as we have no control over other people's behaviors, and because we live in a free society, many do not want to be told what to do, not even in the form of safe hiker guidelines. Even warning signs are questioned.
I am a firm believer in the guidelines provided for safe hiking, but for those who do not see them as valuable or necessary, they really are free to "take whatever risk they want with their own necks." I don't think it's right... but free is free. Unfortunately the rescuer risks life and limb to save all regardless of what "credentials" they bring to the mountain.

I now question what exactly Wisher meant but his words did make me appreciate the fact that no matter how much we argue about what we believe to be safe hiking practice, in the end we really have no control over anyone's behavior. It would appear that if we don't "hike safe" and come to a bad end, then and only then might we come to understand what and why certain recommendations were in place. Experiential learning.