Another "Donation" to the S&R Fund ? - Mt Madison Rescue

[dug]

I'd be curious to understand what his real intention was. Was he planning to actually summit Mt. Madison? I think we agree that may be a stretch. But, possibly, was he just out for a walk in the woods. People still do that. It doesn't require a list or a patch or a club or a red marker or thousands of dollars of gear. Just some footwear (and if he expected rotting snow and springmelt, he may have chosen some pretty good footwear at that)

Without knowing exactly what his plan was, and where he was found, I'm not sure how I could possibly comment on what he was doing.

 

[hikerbrian]

In this article it states that "Walsh reported he was having medical issues, had lost the trail, run out of water, did not have a flashlight and did not have adequate clothing."
Providing Walsh is not being misquoted, it appears he had no problem listing all the items that were missing that might have helped keep him safe.
Too little too late?

I sort of doubt he called up F&G and said, "Hey, I know all about those 10 essentials, but I opted to carry none of them and now I'm totally screwed, help!" I suspect F&G asked him what provisions he had, and when asked about each of those specific items, he said he didn't have them. But I could be wrong.

In any case, I find it curious that there is no mention of the only two items that Walsh REALLY NEEDED to prevent his rescue: a map and a compass (and the ability to use them). Think about it: NONE of the items mentioned by F&G would have prevented a rescue: with water he could have survived longer in the woods...and then still required a rescue; with a flashlight he could have wandered around all night...and then still required a rescue; with more clothing, he could have holed up under a tree...and still required a rescue; with more "hiking gear" - perhaps they're talking about the 10 essentials, such as sunglasses, a first aid kit, fire starter, a shelter and a knife - he could have, I don't know, carved his name in a tree? None of these items would have prevented a rescue. Sure he probably would have been more likely to survive the night, but then he'd still be in the same predicament the next morning. And his cell phone would probably be dead.

At 5:45 p.m. there is plenty of daylight, and even if it was getting colder Walsh likely had enough fuel in the tank to have kept warm with movement, provided he moved in the right direction. The only two items that Walsh really needed are never mentioned by F&G.

F&G is not as smart as it thinks it is.

 

[erugs]

Without knowing exactly what his plan was, and where he was found, I'm not sure how I could possibly comment on what he was doing.

I think that goes back to my earlier comment on poor reporting. Remember the old days when newspapers had reporters and reporters had to get good news? Unfortunately times have changed. Many stories are grabbed from a small press release and further information can't be sought because it would cost the paper too much money. And with this guy, he doesn't want to talk about it.

 

[Raven]

If he expected slushy snow and brooks running high, those knee-high boots might be more functional than Limmers!

I absolutely agree with you. It's not my choice of footwear but it may be one of the only good choices this guy made at least from the available info. Waterproof boots in the Whites in spring, even if knee high is hard to argue against.

I simply find it interesting that they opted to make this a negative, but as alluded to in an earlier post, there may be some "piling on" in this case. The description paints an image of a clam-digging buffoon far from home wandering aimlessly in the woods, and although that may be accurate in this case, I think using the boots as fodder detracts from that argument. They may as well have said he was found hiking with a piece of wheat stuck between his teeth.

He made enough mistakes without having to use his boots in the argument.

No offense to clam diggers.

 

[Lefty E]

I have not had time to reach each reply, but wondering if any other hikers saw this person on the trails..Pine Link is not too popular in the spring at least that I know of, so most likely there was not another soul up there...but if you saw a person outfitted like that and at the time of day, what would you do??

 

[RoySwkr]

This photo attachment was more like what I was thinking when I read knee high rubber boots.

Yup, but if fishermen wear them they should be good on wet rocks not to mention being good in brush off-trail

 

[JacobH]

I don't know if anyone has been on Pine Link since last summer, but when I was there in July it was overgrown. I suspect someone could easily get off trail there.

 

[Maddy]

F&G is not as smart as it thinks it is.

I don't know about anyone else but I think I can still count on them if I need a rescue.

 

[Maddy]

Light and Fast...with knee high rubber boots? I think that characterization is a bit off, to be kind.

1. This person does not exactly sound like somebody who runs around the mountains on a regular basis, if at all
2. Light and Fast certainly does not imply having no warm gear, food, lighting, knowledge of the terrain, etc.

I assigned him a complimentary "light and fast" status because he greatly lightened his load by not carrying the "essentials". He only had a t-shirt on so he was not weighted down with heavy clothing. Turns out carrying the "essentials" would have been a colossal waste of energy because when all was said and done, they were not needed to save him from being rescued. It's the map and compass that were missing.

I worked with knee high rubber boots on Sunday at my wildlife job. They were amazingly comfortable and they had great traction. I tried to make them slip around and they held fast. Don't think I would like to hike in them but if you have a decent pair of legs, I could understand someone using them in place of a hiking boot. Maybe he can't afford hiking boots.

This guy might have hiking experience under his belt. The trail he picked was not a walk in the park which leads me to think that he might have been around the block a few times.

 

[Tim Seaver]

I assigned him a complimentary "light and fast" status because he greatly lightened his load by not carrying the "essentials".

Again, the term "Fast and Light" does not mean leaving essentials behind. It's a gross misuse of the term.

 

[David Metsky]

*sigh*

[moderator hat]
Repeating two of the basic rules here:

#1 - No politics.
#2 - If you have a problem with a post, use "Report this post" rather than complain in the thread.

This isn't rocket science, people.

[/moderator hat]

 

[Raven]

Pine Link Trail

Pure Speculation...thinking out loud

The Pine Link Trail...

Suppose one did not know much or anything at all about the Northern Presidentials but one had a map of the Whites, but not the WMG, just a trail map. In choosing a route to Madison, Pine Link looks like a solid choice. To one unfamiliar, the trail system from Appalachia could be confusing and intimidating, Great Gulf/Osgood etc. look long, and maybe the DW Scout Trail looks like you go north, south, and west to go east. But Pine Link looks like a pretty straight shot on the map, right to the summit with the Howker Ridge. It's shorter in mileage and starts at a higher elevation (1651') than the others. This info is all available on a map.

Without a trail description and without (knowledge of) access to say resources like VFTT, how would one know that Valley Way/Osgood is generally considered the easiest route up?

Just thinking here - not trying to fill in details, but since the trail choice has come up a few times, I think Pine Link makes perfect sense from the perspective of one having little experience with the area and only a trail map.

And as Lefty mentioned, I wouldn't expect to see too many people out there this time of year. I go by that lot a couple times a month when Pinkham B is clear and there's not often much going on.

Edit: I realize he did not have a map in this case but that trail seems like a good choice if one were to have a look at one, say the big relief map in the PNVC down the road...

 

[Stan]

F&G is not as smart as it thinks it is.

I haven't read anything about this case that supports this comment ... haven't learned anything elsewhere to suggest it either. In fairness, I would be curious to learn the reasoning behind such a disparagement.

If the rest of the post is an explanation it is way off the mark. SAR people routinely acquire as extensive a checklist of information as possible. This goes well beynd the immediate question of "is a search or rescue needed?" It helps predict possible behaviors and outcomes on which the case is planned and executed. What SAR asked and what was reported are not necessarily identical ... good SAR information does not necessarily equate to interesting journalism. SAR is a lot more than a bunch of people throwing on their gear and going out for hike.

I also disagree with the notion that there is plenty of daylight left at 5:45 PM. Every minute is urgent when it comes to SAR, especially in an environment so unfriendly to someone so ill equipped for it.

I think these discussions can be informative and fun but it never ceases to amaze me at the number of critiques, criticisms and conclusions drawn on the basis of scant facts, not to mention pure speculation. But what really really really troubles me is this ... just when I get to feeling comfortable about the risks and hazards I should be prepared for as a hiker, I learn there is another devastating possibility ... finger strain!

... has to do multiple click throughs to find what are recomendations for equipment to go hiking ...

 

[Tim Seaver]

Mr. Walsh Speaks

http://www.unionleader.com/article/20120510/NEWS07/705109937

 

[erugs]

I'm glad he decided to make a statement. I'm glad he's safe and recovering and hope he finds a job soon. I'm delighted that F&G was able to help him. I desperately hope others read his words and learn from them. Thanks, Tim, for posting this update.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

It's good to hear that Mr. Walsh seems to be recovering.

When Raven asked for input on doing a Presi Traverse, I suggested he avoid the Pine Link trail - "I've found the same is true if you start the traverse via the Pine Link - by the time you struggle to the summit of Madison, Pierce seems a helluva long way off!"

I haven't hiked it in a few years, so I don't know it's current condition, but I'm reasonably certain it would have been a difficult carry-out for SAR staff. Fortunately, that wasn't necessary.

 

[dug]

I'd be curious to understand what his real intention was. Was he planning to actually summit Mt. Madison? I think we agree that may be a stretch. But, possibly, was he just out for a walk in the woods. People still do that. It doesn't require a list or a patch or a club or a red marker or thousands of dollars of gear. Just some footwear (and if he expected rotting snow and springmelt, he may have chosen some pretty good footwear at that)

Without knowing exactly what his plan was, and where he was found, I'm not sure how I could possibly comment on what he was doing.

OK, now I'll comment that he has given his side:

This type of activity, to me, is what the F&G should be directing their attention to when it comes to "billable" (not getting into the overall argument here).

 

[Maddy]

That poor man. I feel for him. Happy to read that it worked out as well as it did.
Strong work and job well done by his rescuers.

 

[Mike P.]

Billable - sounds like it

Payable by an unemployed welder - not likely Maybe he can use his welding skills for some type of community service.

Compared to food, shelter, the hospital bill, the SAR bill can't be a high priority.

As a 30 year old, my experience wasn't much different, just waited for warmer weather but more fortunate. First mountain hike was Greylock in humid conditions, over dressed (okay I did read about Mt. Weather & over dressed)

The 2nd was a rainy 40 something day on Mansfield & poor map reading skills, decent sense of direction though. (never got lost hunting & no map involved) I knew my map skills were zilch so when I reached treeline in the fog and rain, I did not stray far from the trail I came up on) Went back two weeks later to summit Mansfield with slighly better map reading skills & then had a successful but stupid trip up Katahdin.

The early gear I had, much of it was cotton, footwear was poor (old Raquetball shoes, I wasn't going to wear the good ones - last worn on Katahdin) but health was pretty good. (VB 3X a week or more, 40 miles biking, plus 3-4 x a week in the gym)

Point is sometimes your just lucky & sometimes you're not, same as driving at night in moose country or after midnight on weekends near bars. More people head out late, or unprepared & nothing happens. The weather is benign & they get out the last 100 yards by cell phone light or moonlight. But when it goes bad, in many cases, the same similarities crop up. Hopefully a few more see themselves (generally not us, few if any of us are newbies anymore, we may need SAR for a fall though) in Mr. Walsh & they learn.

 

[sierra]

I was lucky enough to have parents who were day hikers and we frequently vacationed at a place which featured competently led day hikes. That said, some of my early hikes wouldn't meet current standards. (One was a noon start for Mt Washington with no lights...)

Glad you made it through the early period.

My comment about new blood was an editorial on much of the tone of this thread. The victim is being castigated for making a bunch of typical beginner "errors" (based upon a report containing a mixture of spin and limited real info). If we pounce on every beginner who does not meet expert standards, fewer will continue hike (or at least pay attention to this BBS).

Doug

I see your point now and agree 100%. I think a discussion of the "incident" can take place in a respectable way. Thinking back to my first year or two, I would be out of line to be to harsh to this guy, I bet he has already learned an amazing amount as a result of this one hike.