Another rescue of unprepared hikers on Mt Washington

[kerry13]

http://www.conwaydailysun.com/index.php/newsx/local-news/110386-rescue-121013 Sounds like they plan to make these folks pay for the rescue.

 

[iagreewithjamie]

Yes. I agree. Make them pay. There was once a discussion on here about what constitutes negligence: well here's your example. Even the lower summits were cold, frigid, and icy this last week - I can't imagine shooting for Washington. And taking the cog down as a backup? You can see that damned thing from almost every summit in WMNF - how could you spend all day on the west side of the mountain and not notice that your escape plan isn't even possible?

This is why I hike solo. You start as a group, you finish as a group. So even though you may be one of "the few people in the group who were adequately prepared", you're only as smart as your dumbest imbecile.

Were they trying to make it into the Conway Daily Sun, or the next edition of Not Without Peril?

 

[Raven]

Thanks for posting Kerry.

I was on the summit of Madison about noon that day and estimated 50 MPH winds and the temp was around 5 according to my thermometer. If the wind had been stronger, I would have called it a day at the hut. As it was, I opted to descend and stay away from the summit cone of Adams as the wind was predicted to only get stronger and hit 100 mph by nightfall.

I won't comment on who should bear the cost of the rescue but I am happy they are safe and kudos to the search and rescue personnel. It does sound initially like some members were unprepared however. The equipment needed to spend a forced bivy in extreme cold is necessary at this time of year.

This may present an interesting question however as it sounds like some members of the group were very much prepared.

From the article: "While some members of the team had gear appropriate for the conditions, Saunders said, others did not. They all carried backpacks with extra clothing, food and water. Only the more prepared members carried extra clothing, bivvy gear, goggles and flashlights." (appears to have one typo - extra clothing twice)

 

[RoySwkr]

With the quick find and 6 people to split the cost, the bill shouldn't be very much

Will the publicity in Quebec be 1) don't hike unprepared (good), 2) don't hike in NH (some would say good but tourist businesses would disagree), or 3) don't call for rescue (SAR groups may be unhappy)

 

[Sherby]

Will the publicity in Quebec be 1) don't hike unprepared (good), 2) don't hike in NH (some would say good but tourist businesses would disagree), or 3) don't call for rescue (SAR groups may be unhappy)

You also have to consider NY's completly opposite policy that apply in the Adirondacks (where most of hikers from Québec are because Montréal is closer).

 

[Breeze]

This was a pretty mellow rescue for Mt Washington, chain up a few vehicles, go a ways up or down the road, no having to hunt above tree line after dark. They knew at that point the group was below treeline on the MWAR. Another mile downhill the group could have taken Old Jackson Road to PNVC, which I'm sure has seen at least some boots or snowshoes. Not a whole lot to charge for, BUT...

It really isn't good form to lie on the phone about someone being in running shoes to add urgency to the rescue. It really isn't good form to THEN call back and say " never-mind" when rescue folks are already thinking hypothermia and frostbite, darkness and frankly are already questioning preparedness.


Breeze

 

[Neil]

"They all could have died". Mmm.

Chalk that one up as a technology-enabled false alarm. I bet they were freaking freezing though (priceless lesson right there) and they were lucky it seems they didn't find themselves in a whiteout or get caught darkness.

At least they got a peak off their list and now, they don't have to go back.

This seems contradictory though:

They all carried backpacks with extra clothing, food and water. Only the more prepared members carried extra clothing, bivvy gear, goggles and flashlights.

 

[Neil]

I have never seen anything on the subject in the French press, which I read daily. Perhaps NH F&G should communicate with the paper and have them run a story.

Neil -

Do the Montreal papers carry stories regarding NH's propensity to charge for rescues?

 

[erugs]

I don't know about Saturday, but I do know that the Cog has been running. They have limited trips to tree line with Santa. I know because my family was there on Sunday for a ride.

 

[sierra]

These threads on rescues get me thinking. I do not carry Bivi gear and do not leave my plans with anyone. If I got rescued would I be charged given the criteria I keep hearing about? I mean you know those Hike Safe posters, they list leaving plans with someone as a rule of thumb. With my experience, isnt it my right to hike the way I want? Its tough because Im not married. Many years ago, I left my plans with my Mom and the number to call. I got benighted in deep snow descending Boot spur after losing the trail, didnt hit the road till 11.00pm. Luckely she held off on calling ( knowing me she hung tough). But the whole time Im suffering out there, Im stuck thinking of poor old mom sitting by the phone. After that I just go and dont bother telling anyone.

 

[DayTrip]

FWIW - 3 or 4 years ago a friend & I "tested" the feasibility of using the Cog RR as an escape route, and found it viable since the new power/utility lines were put in. The road/route weaves back and forth under the cog, but it's quite doable. As you might imagine, it's rather steep, and you may be walking into the teeth of the wind, but ... it would be tough to get lost, and it is the fastest way down.

I thought there were some spots along the tracks that would not be walkable, like the huge trestle over Jacob's ladder or whatever that big chasm is called. Is there a roadway under/alongside the tracks all the way down? Haven't rode the Cog in 20 years. I always wondered if the tracks were buried in snow or kept clear for some purpose (the tracks near top are only 2' or so above ground so I assume they get buried unless maintained). How tall are the power/utility lines you reference? I don't recall seeing from Jewell Trail/Gulfside Trail and I don't recall anything along the tracks as you approach from this direction and cut across them on the way to/from summit.

Can you expand a little on what you followed exactly? Appreciate it.

 

[DougPaul]

These threads on rescues get me thinking. I do not carry Bivi gear and do not leave my plans with anyone. If I got rescued would I be charged given the criteria I keep hearing about? I mean you know those Hike Safe posters, they list leaving plans with someone as a rule of thumb. With my experience, isnt it my right to hike the way I want? Its tough because Im not married. Many years ago, I left my plans with my Mom and the number to call. I got benighted in deep snow descending Boot spur after losing the trail, didnt hit the road till 11.00pm. Luckely she held off on calling ( knowing me she hung tough). But the whole time Im suffering out there, Im stuck thinking of poor old mom sitting by the phone. After that I just go and dont bother telling anyone.

Leaving your plans with someone else is a double-edged sword (and I think officialdom tends to forget/ignore the back edge...).

These days cell phones can sometimes get a message out (either to hold off sounding the alarm or to call for help yourself) and there are sat phones, PLBs, SPOTs, etc.

I similarly have no one to leave plans with. One can leave a copy of one's plans in the car so if the officials get curious about the car they can get an idea about what to do about you.

I generally try to carry enough gear to survive the night if I am immobilized. And I was "smart" enough to wait until I was within cellphone coverage before I broke my leg (BC skiing). I had everything needed to stabilize me onsite in my pack until the evac crew arrived.

I tell my mom about my trips after I come back--and she prefers it that way (particularly back when I was technical climbing...).

Doug

 

[Becca M]

Doug - you definitely carry enough to survive the night!!!!

Sierra, yeah, I don't bother to tell anyone any more in general for the same reasons.

Feeling pressure to be out by a certain time makes for stress-based decisions - I try not to commit to a time or a day to be out if I can But, I do carry some stuff I know I would be really upset if I didn't have!!!!

 

[JCarter]

I thought there were some spots along the tracks that would not be walkable, like the huge trestle over Jacob's ladder or whatever that big chasm is called. Is there a roadway under/alongside the tracks all the way down? Haven't rode the Cog in 20 years. I always wondered if the tracks were buried in snow or kept clear for some purpose (the tracks near top are only 2' or so above ground so I assume they get buried unless maintained). How tall are the power/utility lines you reference? I don't recall seeing from Jewell Trail/Gulfside Trail and I don't recall anything along the tracks as you approach from this direction and cut across them on the way to/from summit.

Can you expand a little on what you followed exactly? Appreciate it.

The power lines (15KV if I remember correctly?) are buried parallel to the cog tracks all the way to the top. When they were putting them in, they had excavators and other heavy equipment all up and down the mountain -- I was surprised there wasn't a bigger uproar when it was going on, but I suppose we all consider the cog an eyesore anyway... The swath of land they cleared for the burial forms a rough, but passable, road-sized path. Given the environment, it's not going to grow in during our lifetimes on the upper stretch, even if they make no effort to keep it clear. I don't know if it will be kept brushed out down low.

 

[RoySwkr]

The swath of land they cleared for the burial forms a rough, but passable, road-sized path. Given the environment, it's not going to grow in during our lifetimes on the upper stretch, even if they make no effort to keep it clear. I don't know if it will be kept brushed out down low.

For awhile the Cog was running a ski train where they took you to tree line and you skied back along the tracks - skiing elsewhere being forbidden by the Forest Service. I would imagine this section was put in better shape at least initially.

 

[HockeyPuck]

These hikers made some bad decisions but IMO when at the summit at 2:00 PM they made a wise decision to descend the auto road. If they attempt to descend the Ammo, Jewell or follow the cog tracks surely they would be back after darkness and difficult to find or rescue. The auto road would be much easier to descend (even without a flashlight) and easier for them to be found by a SAR team. They were under prepared but given the circumstances and weather conditions they made some good choices that potentially saved them from a potentially disastrous article in the next edition of Not Without Peril. Hopefully it was a learning experience for all involved.

 

[sierra]

Leaving your plans with someone else is a double-edged sword (and I think officialdom tends to forget/ignore the back edge...).

These days cell phones can sometimes get a message out (either to hold off sounding the alarm or to call for help yourself) and there are sat phones, PLBs, SPOTs, etc.

I similarly have no one to leave plans with. One can leave a copy of one's plans in the car so if the officials get curious about the car they can get an idea about what to do about you.

I generally try to carry enough gear to survive the night if I am immobilized. And I was "smart" enough to wait until I was within cellphone coverage before I broke my leg (BC skiing). I had everything needed to stabilize me onsite in my pack until the evac crew arrived.

I tell my mom about my trips after I come back--and she prefers it that way (particularly back when I was technical climbing...).

Doug

I also carry x'tra gear and do think I could survive a night out and be fine. I never carried my phone before, but now I do, mostly for videos and pics, but its there. I don't leave anything on my car as I'm worried it would invite a break in. My truck was broken onto awhile back and I lost some treasured gear.

 

[DougPaul]

I also carry x'tra gear and do think I could survive a night out and be fine. I never carried my phone before, but now I do, mostly for videos and pics, but its there. I don't leave anything on my car as I'm worried it would invite a break in. My truck was broken onto awhile back and I lost some treasured gear.

I consider my phone to be emergency gear--it is normally turned off and buried in my pack. It rarely comes out to play...

I also try to leave as little as possible in the car.

An additional point--the note left in the car with one's hiking plans should be folded or in an envelope so it cannot be read without entering the car first. No point in telling potential thieves how long it will be before you are coming back.

Doug

 

[Sherby]

Doug/Sierra, I'm curious what is your plan/gear for an unplanned below 0F night in the woods ?

 

[Breeze]

For awhile the Cog was running a ski train where they took you to tree line and you skied back along the tracks - skiing elsewhere being forbidden by the Forest Service. I would imagine this section was put in better shape at least initially.

Please tell us when the USFS forbade skiing within the WMNF? I'm sure many would be interested to know that history.

Breeze