Attendance plummets at Baxter...

[onestep]

Use of Maine's two premier parks - Baxter State Park and Acadia National Park - has fallen sharply since 2000, a drop that mirrors national trends and is blamed by some on an exploding preoccupation with the Internet and entertainment media.

full story

Onestep

 

[poison ivy]

Correlating the Internet and a drop in park attendance seems a strange connection to me... I could think of a lot of other reasons that park attendance might be dropping that would seem much more readily apparent -- including rising gas prices/travel costs or the reservation system at Baxter, which really forces you to plan far in advance if you want to make sure you get a spot.

Interesting article though... thanks for posting.

- Ivy

 

[Pucknuts61]

I agree with PI on this one. Blaming the decline on TV and internet just seems absurd. We'd see the same % of decrease across the nation in all parks if that was the case

I also noticed in the article that "Unique management rules prohibit officials from promoting the park to help increase attendance".

Seems like a no-brainer to start promoting such a beautiful area to bring people back and an easier reservation system would also help.

Peace,
Bill

 

[Tom Rankin]

Selfishly speaking, the less people the better!

But of course, we all know about it here, and I dare say, anyone who has been there, will want to go back!

 

[dms]

These administrators are amazing, they make it nearly impossible to get into the place, a reservation system designed to torture people, and then they lament that too few people are coming!

 

[jrbren]

I wish they would expand on WHY they think entertainment media is reducing travel to these places. Are they saying people are just sitting in front of the tube instead of going to NPs ? Or they saying people have more options on where to go for outdoor recreation based on more info available on the internet (like this forum) for more obscure places which competes with these parks ?

I think the internet increases my desire to get out there based on reading trip reports and seeing photos from others. I can't speak for the general populace though.

To me, less people doing outdoor actvities = less people care about environmental issues = less people to vote for politicians with environmental agenda = poorer environment for all.

For me, I have lived in VT for 17 years now and have still never visited Baxter (save for passing through once on an Allagash canoe trip many years ago) or Acadia. Not for lack of desire to see these places, there are just allot of alternative beautiful places that stand in between to vistit for much less time in the car.

I agree gas prices and complicated reservation system is a deterent for most. For me, I am hesitant to sign up for a trip to any mountain in New England months in advance when so much of the trip enjoyment for me is weather dependent and our weather is impossible to predict 1 day in advance let alone 6 months. Especially when there are so many other mountains in NY, VT and NH (and even western Maine) that require no reservations and are 10X easier to get to from the BTV area.

For example I made my plans for tomorrow's hike about 3 hours ago. I know the weather will stink with likely electrcial storms so I pick a peak that is mostly wooded. Not a good Khatadin or Presi forecast for this weekend.

 

[SteveHiker]

I'm sure they'd complain if too many people were going too.

 

[Tim Seaver]

There is an interesting article on the subject herehttp://www.stats.org/stories/obesity_national_parks_jul12_06.htm

From the NPS:

The National Park Service received 89.9 million recreation
visits from January-May 2003*. The -7.7% decrease in public use was -
7.0 million fewer visits than in 2002. This decrease was not concentrated in
any geographic area but reflect a system wide decrease in visitation. The
situation as described in the April report has not changed other than
the negative numbers are getting larger.

(http://www.peer.org/docs/nps/EXECANAL_May03.pdf)

 

[sardog1]

"The cause, dear Brutus, lies not in our Internet but ourselves."

Too much urbanization, too much alienation from the natural world, and too much fear of that "unknown" out there among parents these days. Ask yourself: Do the kids I know have a place where they can easily access the outdoors? And are they permitted to play there unsupervised? Do I know any kids involved with cross country skiing and/or snowshoeing for recreation? Now, ask the same questions about your own childhood. If you're like me, there's a huge generational shift on these points.

The plain truth is that kids are not being exposed sufficiently to the natural world. And as a result they grow up with little interest in it and less interest in reversing that situation with their own kids when they become parents.

Yes, gas prices are high. But hunting and fishing license revenues have been declining since back when gas was a whole lot cheaper.

Every educator and any other would-be mind shaper knows what the end of the article points out: You gotta get 'em when they're young to influence the choices they will make as adults.

 

[injektilo]

I think the article is trying to link the declines to the internet because this a national trend... it's not just BSP that is seeing a decline. I think sardog1 makes some excellent points.

Also, I don't think the reservation system is that tough to figure out.

 

[poison ivy]

Also, I don't think the reservation system is that tough to figure out.

I don't think anyone was saying it was difficult to figure out the reservation system... just that the system is not as easy to deal with as in other places. As others have said... it's difficult to make a spontaneous trip to Baxter and be sure you're going to get a spot if you want to camp in the park.

As an example, I'll point to a Baxter trip I'm planning. I had 12 people interested in attending four months ago when I had to reserve campsites. During the interim, 10 people dropped out of the trip... due to schedule conflicts and other very legitimate issues. It is really difficult to commit to a trip four months in advance at a place that doesn't have a cancellation period at all, especially if you're talking about just a weekend or instead of a weeklong vacation type trip.

For the record, I don't mean to pick on Baxter... I have been to the park many times and love it there. But I don't think I'm typical when it comes to this stuff either and I'm willing to commit to things a crazy amount of time in advance.

I haven't been to Acadia, so I can't make any comments about the other park mentioned in the article.

- Ivy

 

[Rick]

I posted this a few months ago on another well-known hiking and backpacking site - I don;t want to ruffle any feathers with glamorous or metrosexual labels, but they are my thoughts....:

I look around at my younger co workers now and everyone is plugged in with Ipods, video, cellphones, blackberries and laptops. They seem to all be driving very, very nice cars and wearing very fashionable designer style clothing and footwear and pulling small roller backpacks everywhere they go.

I think back to when I started backpacking again (17 years ago) and there were none of these things around, for the most part and if they were, they simply never distracted us as much as they do now. I think many folks would have a hard time being away from a phone for more than 24 hours as our society become more networked. I also think there is a shift in society to folks having to have it all or appear to have it all and backpacking doesn't fit into that scope.

I also look at many of these younger folks and I see life revolves around American Idol, Brittany Spears, and a host of other actresses or singers or celebrities that I don't know anything about. Many young women I see are into a more glamorous look and many of the men seem to be more metrosexual appearing. I am beginning to feel like an old fart.

I beleive it all goes hand in hand with the comment about backpacking & grunge not mixing well with today's youth.

 

[injektilo]

I don't think anyone was saying it was difficult to figure out the reservation system... just that the system is not as easy to deal with as in other places. As others have said... it's difficult to make a spontaneous trip to Baxter and be sure you're going to get a spot if you want to camp in the park.

As an example, I'll point to a Baxter trip I'm planning. I had 12 people interested in attending four months ago when I had to reserve campsites. During the interim, 10 people dropped out of the trip... due to schedule conflicts and other very legitimate issues. It is really difficult to commit to a trip four months in advance at a place that doesn't have a cancellation period at all, especially if you're talking about just a weekend or instead of a weeklong vacation type trip.

For the record, I don't mean to pick on Baxter... I have been to the park many times and love it there. But I don't think I'm typical when it comes to this stuff either and I'm willing to commit to things a crazy amount of time in advance.

I haven't been to Acadia, so I can't make any comments about the other park mentioned in the article.

- Ivy

All good points… I definitely wasn’t trying to indicate that people were picking on BSP or anything like that. I guess I just don’t mind, much like yourself, planning far in advance.

 

[Stan]

I don't think it is an accurate characterization that the internet and TV are to "blame" and even a bigger mistake to discount them entirely. There was a seemingly good study that suggests these are related to a social phenomenum that, among other things, results in less outdoor activity. This coincides with what fraternal, vererans and volunteer groups have observed in declining participation. Travel costs play a role, too, and the past five years have seen that skyrocket.

My concern is the knee jerk reaction of park managers: cut back service as a response to declining revenues. Only in government entities is this logical; in the private sector such a reaction would likely put the company out of business. Riders of the MBTA around Boston can observe this same illogical response to rising costs ... cut service and increase fares! ... more ridership and revenue is to be gained by making it easier, more comfortable and cheaper to rely on the public transportation than discouraging its use.

Several ideas for such managers to consider that have historically assured survival if not success in the private sector: 1) look at your cost structure and align it to your mission and to what enhaces the revenue generators, 2) cut prices!, 3) extend the season, 4) streamline the reservation system as that appears to be an obstacle to some visitors, 5) allow longer stays, 6) work on increasing the endowment ... etc. etc. etc.

 

[Jaytrek57]

Just a comment.

As a youth worker for over 20 years, it really bothers me the level of "generationalism" (is that a word ) that goes on on this board and others at times.

Youth today simply have more choices and, whether you agree or not, IMHO, more challenges.

I actually believe more youth groups have been getting out in the last 5-7 years. It least in the Boston area.

I always hated the inference that the past generation(s) are better, they are just different. There are positives and challenges with each.

peace.

 

[thuja]

This really is an odd lament to hear regarding Baxter, given that in numerous ways they seem to try to keep the lid on visitation. I would really like to know how many people they discourage and turn away, with their totally anal, paternalistic, and locked-down backcountry camping system, and their practice of turning day-hikers away once lots fill.

Anybody who has any kind of history with New England mountains or the Adirondacks--mine goes back to the seventies--knows that they are much more crowded than they used to be. Five years of modest declines do not a trend make.

My personal take is that extended trips and overnights in the backcountry may be stagnant or declining, but day-hike use continues to rise, relentlessly.

 

[mavs00]

It's all in the cycle, 10 years from now, we'll wake up and discover the need to "find ourselves in the mountains". For now, people are just doing different things.

Everything goes up and down, and as far as visit's too Baxter, we are right now, on the down cycle. It won't stay that way. When it's up, we'll all at start screaming "Damn, we gotta do something here".

Bottom line, like many here, I've been fortunate to have been there and you know what, I really hope I get back (despite the 16 hrs trip), but I recognize that most of the country doesn't think like me.

By the way, I don't really think of this as bad or good. IT JUST IS, and we shouldn't put too much stock in trend that only spans a few years (even 5).

 

[Nate]

I wonder to what extent the drop off in park visitations is due to the fact that people simply don't have as much as much free time as they used to. I certainly don't have nearly the leasure time I had even two years ago. In the post-downsizing era, where longer hours are necessary in order to maximize worker productivity, I think there is a fair amount of the adult population that puts in good, solid, hard weeks, so that when the weekend rolls around, they're in no mood to drive six hours to visit a park, especially when there's another six hour drive home (followed by another long, tiring week of work) waiting at the end of the trip. It can just be too much work, especially when it was preceded by a week of too much work.

I also wonder how much of it is due to demographics. After all, a fair amount of the adult population is made up of people from the Baby Boom Generation. A number of my co-workers hail from this group, and it seems like most of them were really active when they were a little younger, but they simply don't hit the woods any more. They've found other interests and simply aren't as active as they used to be. Perhaps there's a large number of people that have already gotten as much out of these parks as they would like to.

 

[Remix]

Anyone have (representative) stats on the distances visitors to Baxter travel?

 

[J.P.]

There is more information on this study at the Nature Conservancy's web site http://www.nature.org/wherewework/northamerica/states/indiana/press/press2494.html. They also give high gas prices as a reason and also say that while there is a correlation between video games, internet usage, the movies and gas prices and decreased park visits that isn't the same as a causation.