The differences of the Whites verses ADKS

[Kevin Rooney]

The questions of "Which area is harder" and "Which area do you prefer" are quite different questions and shouldn't be confused. While I'm interested in discussions re: "which area do you prefer", preferably over a beer, this question rapidly disintegrates on BB's, so I prefer to avoid those topics of threads.

If a poll were conducted among finishers of both lists, the proverbial 111'er group, as to which area is harder (discounting such things as travel time, etc) my hunch is it wouldn't even be close - the Daks would be judged harder. Personally, I don't think the topography in the Daks is necessarily steeper, rougher, etc - it's more likely the Whites have a far longer history, and better funding, of systematic trail building and ongoing maintenance so the trails are more gradual, less likely to erode, etc. Maybe in another 200 years the comparative level of difficulty will be a wash.

 

[Little Rickie]

As of this past summer I have started my quest of the ADK46...my question I pose to all of you ..
What do you find are the differences and or similarities of the White Mountain peaks verses the ADK peaks? Difficulty? Accessibly? Trail conditions? Trail markings? etc........
kmac

The ADK peaks are closer to me. I like camping in a lean-tos. They trails feel more remote and tougher.

I loved my first trip to the Whites. I've never been above tree line for so long and for so far. The rocks are sharper in the Whites. At least where I was. I can't wait until I get to stay in a hut but they look crowed.

I'm going back to both but the dacks more often because of the drive.

 

[Little Rickie]

, but you don't get so many... umm... yuppy(?)... ummm...gentry

Interesting.

 

[skiguy]

In terms of difficulty, well, you got me there. I haven't found anything in any area that's so completely difficult. Most of the difficulty lies in what you bring to the table... I can go do a Presidential Traverse, and that's somewhat difficult but only because I chose to do that Hike. You can hike all the Presidentials without having to do a Traverse. Anyone that thinks the trails are necessarily easier in the Whites should come over and do anything in The Great Gulf or Mahoosuc Notch. Again, you can get to any of those places the "easy" way... get to Adams and Madison by Valley Way (wicked easy) or by Madison Gulf (more challenging). Hell, you can go to Tecumseh (one of the easiest 4K's) via Welch-Dickey over a knife-edge ridge with a bootleg trail if you want to make things interesting.

Some very good points. How you define "Hard" IMO is in the Eye of the Beholder and their personal criteria. When comparing the Whites and the Daks are we talking about the 48 and the 46 or are we talking about the entire region in them selves? Summer or Winter. Trails, slides, technical climbs, wether or not your hung over.The discussion and comparisons are endless. One thing that is for sure. The Whites will always have bigger above treeline exposure that the Daks don't even come close to and not to mention three major storm patterns that converge. But of course the Whites will never have the Mud that the Daks do.

 

[dr_wu002]

Some very good points. How you define "Hard" IMO is in the Eye of the Beholder and their personal criteria. When comparing the Whites and the Daks are we talking about the 48 and the 46 or are we talking about the entire region in them selves? Summer or Winter. Trails, slides, technical climbs, wether or not your hung over.The discussion and comparisons are endless. One thing that is for sure. The Whites will always have bigger above treeline exposure that the Daks don't even come close to and not to mention three major storm patterns that converge. But of course the Whites will never have the Mud that the Daks do.

I'll tell you one more thing that the Whites have over the Daks... A man whose name begins with a "G"...

Edit: Wow, some people might see that as a negative characteristic about the Whites. So, let me balance it by adding a positive one: The Whites have The Cog and the Adirondacks don't!!

-Dr. Wu

 

[Little Rickie]

I think I saw that picture in another forum. eh Pete?

 

[ALGonquin Bob]

The Daks have lots more rules/requirements than the Whites as well - lots of paperwork. Permits, logs to sign in/sign out, etc.

Huh? There are trail registers, but they are for your safety and, as far as I know, are not mandatory. There are no permits at all. You pretty much just drive up to a free parking lot, sign in if you want, and start hiking. OK, there is a fee at the Garden during the busy season, but even the Garden is free during Winter, and the ADK HPIC parking fees can be avoided by just parking on South Meadow Road (Meadows Lane).

 

[peakbagger]

One difference is that there is a year round ban on fires in the high peak area of the ADKs' not sure if there is anywhere in the whites (although possibly hermit lake shleters?). That ban makes for a cold night at Marcy Dam!

 

[ALGonquin Bob]

... You cant forget though that the daks has the AMR, Johns Brook Lodge and ADK Loj. The whites are much closer to Boston, CT, NY is almost Equi-distant

The AMR?! If you're counting that exclusive club as nearby accommodations.... then can we stay at your castle?

I have hiked in the Whites only once, and did the typical high point Mt. Washington thing. On a nice day in August, I found the hike to be fairly easy, and felt guilty counting that bump next to the Lakes of Clouds hut as a peak. However, the scenery was spectacular (until I reached the summit mess), and I wouldn't want to be up there on a bad day in January...

 

[bikehikeskifish]

did the typical high point Mt. Washington thing.

Our highpoint is bigger than your highpoint

Tim

 

[ALGonquin Bob]

All of that terrain above tree line makes for easier hiking in good weather, but you are much more exposed in the not-so-good conditions. I remember the tall cairns along the trail on the way up to Washington, and pictured a hike in low visibility, fog or blowing snow, where you would be thankful just to find the next cairn. The Adirondacks have much less exposure, even on many of the summits. So does NH have anything to rival Nye's summit?!

 

[una_dogger]

If a poll were conducted among finishers of both lists, the proverbial 111'er group, as to which area is harder (discounting such things as travel time, etc) my hunch is it wouldn't even be close - the Daks would be judged harder. .

Yup.

This is the part where Giggy reminds me that I've only hiked the dog routes in the Whites...and the part where I remind him there were plenty of places I'd never take my dog in pursuit of the 46.

But hey! Hiking mountains beats working anyday...anywhere....even *driving* to mountains beats working anyday....anywhere!

 

[una_dogger]

One more thought, for anyone who's never hiked in The Daks, and have only one chance to get there, hike Basin -Saddleback south to north -- those two really embody the Daks for me.

 

[ALGonquin Bob]

And....?

One more thought, for anyone who's never hiked in The Daks, and have only one chance to get there, hike Basin -Saddleback south to north -- those two really embody the Daks for me.

Now how about an equivalent hike for one who might only hike the Whites once?

 

[Neil]

The Whites have way more above tree line hiking. Bar none.

The Dacks have more wild hiking (sauvage, en français).

The Whites have more people.

The Dacks have the 8 inch snowshoe law.

The Dacks have Pin-Pin.

The Whites are in New Hampshire, the Dacks are in New York. just thought I'd mention that.

The Whites have the Presi Traverse.

The Dacks are harder than the Whites.

The Whites are easier than the Dacks.

The Dacks are great.

The Whites are great.

Both the Whites and the Dacks share the fir wave pnenomenon with ...Japan.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

Huh? There are trail registers, but they are for your safety and, as far as I know, are not mandatory. There are no permits at all. You pretty much just drive up to a free parking lot, sign in if you want, and start hiking. OK, there is a fee at the Garden during the busy season, but even the Garden is free during Winter, and the ADK HPIC parking fees can be avoided by just parking on South Meadow Road (Meadows Lane).

It's been about 3 years since I hiked in the Daks, but for a time you were required to fill out a tag in the High Peaks area - I always regarded it as a permit, but maybe it wasn't technically. As I recall, it wasn't a requirement in the AMR. Maybe others shined it, but I didn't want to risk it. There was always a big stash of them at the Garden kiosk.

Sounds like that's not a requirement any longer.

I have hiked in the Whites only once, and did the typical high point Mt. Washington thing. On a nice day in August, I found the hike to be fairly easy, and felt guilty counting that bump next to the Lakes of Clouds hut as a peak.

Any list I've done has a few peaks which are close together and we get to count them, whether it's the NE4K's, the NE67's, the ADK46's, whatever.

So far as I know, the Trailwrights list is the only one where you can't claim two adjoining peaks in the same hike. Are there others?

 

[Neil]

The Whites had Gary Moody.

The Dacks still don't have Dr. Wu.

The Dacks also have Peter Hickey, esq.

 

[una_dogger]

Now how about an equivalent hike for one who might only hike the Whites once?

The Bonds.

That would be my recommendation... a little bit of everything. My second favorite would be a Southern Presi Traverse, a little bit more of everything plus higher elevation.

 

[woodstrider]

Differences?

I find that these two areas are more alike then not as far as flora and fauna. also, I find that the climb is similar as far as usually starting in a deciduous (or mixed) forest and climbing into a boreal zone. Maine is also like this. The weather is similar for similarly sized peaks and you can usually count on foggy morning weather clearing to beautiful skies on the good days. On the bad days it can be down right lethal anywhere, especially above tree line.

The Presidentail Range is another story and the more prolonged exposure along the top poses more dangers to the hiker, more then even the McIntyre Range in the Adirondacks. I find that Wright is always windy and was the hardest, bar none, for me to get in the winter because of the windy conditions that I encountered up there.

I find that there is more BS in the WMNF. More restrictions as to where you can camp, etc. Woops, I forgot the Adirondack High Peaks region. But since I rarely hike or backpack in a herd or make fires, these restrictions aren't a bother.

I find that both the Whites and the Adirondacks High Peaks Regions also similar in that they are both very popular and crowded. But once away from the mountains most likely to be on some list, it is usually much less crowded. I have enjoyed many trips where I see few, if any people, in the Adirondacks or the Whites once I got off the "corridor trails" and away from listed peaks.

If you are after the 46, don't forget that you will have to visit the Catskills a time or two to get Hunter and Slide. Both easily accessed and popular hikes. There is a great and little known trail up to Slide on a western running ridge called the Step or Dutcher Trail. Find it on the USGS or older versions of the Trail Conferences Map (NYNJTC). It is pretty easy to follow except the top 100 feet (due to a couple of trees that are lying in the treadway) and you come out at the dogleg in the W/S or red trail on "top" of Slide.

 

[NewHampshire]

I feel the Daks are much more rugged mountains -- the trails in the Whites are nicely graded

Oy! If you are calling the Whites trails "well graded" I am now SCARED of the Daks!!!!!

I am actually looking forward to heading into the ADK region some day (and heading back to the Catskills too for that matter.)

Brian