The differences of the Whites verses ADKS

[ALGonquin Bob]

If you are after the 46, don't forget that you will have to visit the Catskills a time or two to get Hunter and Slide.

The "46" refers only to the High Peaks of the Adirondacks, aka the Adirondack 46. You do not have to join the 46ers organization in order to be a 46er - the only requirement for that is to climb the mountains. But if you want the climbing certificate and official climbing number, you'll need to submit trip reports and fill out a questionnaire that asks if you've climbed Hunter, Slide, and MacNaughton - none of which are required for official 46er status. Hunter and Slide are part of the Catskill 35 and the NE115. There is no official New York State 46 or 48 list (one could argue for a NY49), and MacNaughton, a peak just a few feet shy of 4000 feet in the Adirondacks, doesn't appear on any list except for the NYHH.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_111

 

[Peakbagr]

Whats fun about this thread is the information, and good natured kidding.

 

[Tom Rankin]

... and MacNaughton, a peak just a few feet shy of 4000 feet in the Adirondacks, doesn't appear on any list except for the NYHH.

Did this change recently? They did not ask me if I had climbed Slide or Hunter, but did ask about MacNaughton. This was 2004.

BTW, MacNaughton is of course on the 770 list (took a while to find, as it is spelled "MAC NAUGHTON MTN") and the ADK HH as well!

 

[kmac]

Whats fun about this thread is the information, and good natured kidding.

Precisely my intentions. Enjoyed reading everyone's responses. The one thing I noticed is the literature..(AMC guide books and 4000 footer book by Steve Smith...maps) are much more descriptive of the trails both in summer and winter, then ADK high peak literature. Is that a fair statement?
Thanks
kmac

 

[Kevin Rooney]

Is that a fair statement? Thanks
kmac

Yes - I would agree with that. I am one of those who regard the WMG as the best guide book in the country.

 

[Mark Schaefer]

Adirondack 46ers hike the same, generally stationary summits and deal with the vagaries of old maps and lists.
White Mountain 48ers hike to wandering summits and deal with the vagaries of ever changing maps and lists.

White Mountain hikers moon the cog.
Adirondack hikers may moon their fellow hikers at open potties.

Adirondack hikers climb on narrow paths which are becoming increasingly marked.
White Mountain hikers climb on wide paths which are becoming increasingly unmarked.

The Whites have food begging jays and foxes.
The Adirondacks have food begging jays and bears that just take your food.

Adirondack hikers generally like the descriptive names of most of their mountains.
White Mountain hikers like to argue about the names of their mountains.

White Mountain hikers complain about the AMC, NFS, parking fees, cog, traffic.
Adirondack hikers complain about the ADK, APA, regulations, mud, traffic stops on the Northway.
All hikers need something to complain about.

 

[Jay H]

The Adirondacks have food begging jays

Will break trail for ice cream!

Jay

 

[Mattl]

Well getting past actual differences that everyone else talks about, we can get to facts. The Whites have worse weather! And not because of their elevation, they do actually get more pecipitation, because of their relation to the ocean. Also, I am troubled by the acid rain problems in many of the Dacks water bodies, the Whites have acid rain too, but not nearly as bad as the Dacks. Some areas there are completly void of all life there, I mention that because I am a big fisherman. However, I know there is still some fishing there, just not remote, higher elevation ponds. Example, if Lonesome Lake was in the Dacks, it would not have life. Those really are the only differences though. -Mattl

 

[dr_wu002]

The Whites have worse weather!

...

if Lonesome Lake was in the Dacks, it would not have life. Those really are the only differences though. -Mattl

Those are the only differences? The weather and fish in Lonesome Lake?

There are also geological differences that we have not mentioned as well. How about biological and ecological?

-Dr. Wu

 

[Mattl]

Heres one for that, many many more moose in the Whites. The Dacks have been struggling to get moose numbers up in the park, and where the moose are not present, the deer make up for. I think the elevational change in tree and animal type is different as well. I think hardwoods dominate higher in the Dacks and a higher percentage of trees like White Pines and Oaks are present in the lower elevations. This can be from soil type, logging history, and climate. I know that for different fish types, many of the bodies of water have more warm water fish then cold ie. bass, perch. For geology, the Dacks are some of the oldest rock in North America, outside the canadian sheild. The Whites were a result of plates smashing together from Africa, and pieces of land being acreted together. Off my head the The Dacks are a huge Batholith(?) from active volcanoes and not formed by crashing together of plates like the Whites. Instead of being uplifted land, I believe they are just much more resistant rock that did not erode as much. -Mattl

 

[PA Ridgerunner]

This is a great thread. I've hiked quite a bit in the Adirondacks (high peaks and otherwise) but have only climbed one of the 48 (Pierce), so I'm interested to learn more about the Whites and what it's like to hike there. Definitely want to spend more time there after completing my 46!

 

[Jay H]

Geologically, the ADKs are part of the Laurentians, i.e. it's Canadian, so maybe that explains the # of French Canadians we see in the ADKs (at least compared to the # of Bostonians we see in the Whites). It's all good!

And if one compares the peaks from Mt Washington, Katahdin, and Mt. Marcy, Mt Marcy was the last one to have been summited, but then they put in the Northway in the 1950s(?) and it's been all downhill from there.. HAHAHAHA Just kidding folks.

Jay

 

[una_dogger]

slight interruption from regularly scheduled good natured debate

Precisely my intentions. Enjoyed reading everyone's responses. The one thing I noticed is the literature..(AMC guide books and 4000 footer book by Steve Smith...maps) are much more descriptive of the trails both in summer and winter, then ADK high peak literature. Is that a fair statement?
Thanks
kmac

I'd recommend Barbara McMartin's Guide to the ADK High Peaks and map (sold separately) -- she details the herdpaths and slide approaches -- very informative guidebook for the Daks.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

Those are the only differences? The weather and fish in Lonesome Lake?

There are also geological differences that we have not mentioned as well. How about biological and ecological?

-Dr. Wu

- There's more biodiversity, both flora and fauna, in the Daks than in the Whites

- The "Lake Effect" creates a higher snowfall in the Daks. On a small scale the same thing happens around Jay Peak in VT

(and deer and moose don't compete for food. They have different diets.)

 

[ALGonquin Bob]

Also, I am troubled by the acid rain problems in many of the Dacks water bodies, the Whites have acid rain too, but not nearly as bad as the Dacks. Some areas there are completly void of all life there, I mention that because I am a big fisherman. However, I know there is still some fishing there, just not remote, higher elevation ponds. Example, if Lonesome Lake was in the Dacks, it would not have life. Those really are the only differences though. -Mattl

By "completely void of all life", do you mean you can't catch any fish or find any large mammals? Please elaborate.

 

[Neil]

I've only done about 15 of the 48 (plus Baldface) but I have always felt the presence of civilization more in the Whites. (the cog, Wash, more ski resorts and highways closer at hand and visible, the huts, etc. Not that there isn't some of that in the ADK's, (the Whiteface ski area is visible from a lot of peaks) it just seemed more present in the peaks I hiked in the Whites.

I haven't noticed as many slides in the Whites. Different rock, soil and weather I presume.

The main difference for me is that the Dacks are closer to my home. 2½ hours to the average TH.

 

[Oldsmores]

OK, I got curious and checked with NOAA. Comparing Lake Placid and Pinkham Notch (very close in elevation) mean and median yearly snowfall totals 1971 - 2000:
Lake Placid: Mean- 104.4", Median - 95.4"
Pinkham Notch: Mean - 134.7, Median - 118.4"

Whites win the Snowfall Derby

 

[ALGonquin Bob]

I've noticed that the Whites are a 12-hour drive for me, and the Adirondack High Peaks region only 6. If I lived "only" 6 hours from the Whites, I'd be up there every month instead of once every few years. Having hiked in NH only once, I can't say that I love the area, but I'm sure I would if I could logistically get there more often. I do love the Adirondacks, which are so much more than just the High Peaks area, with many lakes to explore by canoe or kayak as well. Because of it's much greater distance, NH feels more like a vacation that I need to plan every minute while I'm there. The relative proximity of the Adirondacks (only 4 hours to Old Forge) allows me the luxury of just driving up and determining what to do on a day-to-day basis.

 

[Tom Rankin]

I'd recommend Barbara McMartin's Guide to the ADK High Peaks and map (sold separately) -- she details the herdpaths and slide approaches -- very informative guidebook for the Daks.

I've read several posts that says that some of her information, while excellent at the time, is becoming outdated. Things change when talking about herdpaths, especially in Winter.

 

[una_dogger]

I've read several posts that says that some of her information, while excellent at the time, is becoming outdated. Things change when talking about herdpaths, especially in Winter.

Thats good to know, Tom!
I really got alot of use out of her little map. Great accompaniment to resources like www.adkhighpeaks.com/forums.