Two Rescued From Garfield

[sierra]

Good points, peakbagger.

Unfortunately, most "new" hikers never look at the guidebook. Guidebooks in most areas are a wealth of useful and potentially life saving information. We have the same issue in the Adirondacks. Most new hikers read an article in a magazine, ask a few questions on facebook, and away they go. This results not only in lost person incidents and rescues, but also damage to the resource. As with many things, education is the biggest challenge.

Interesting that you note specific places where it's common or people to get lost. Clearly, this is common knowledge, so the State and its agencies should know this as well. Given the current legal environment, I think it's only a matter of time before someone is charged for a rescue in one of those locations, and their attorney makes the argument that the common knowledge that these places have this problem "creates a duty" on the part of the state to improve signage there. And that argument actually makes financial sense for the state. I don't advocate "big neon signs everywhere" (the straw man). But if there are a few places where we know there is a problem, an investment in a few big, "obvious even in winter" signs would easily be paid for if it prevented even one SAR incident.

A lawyer would have a hard time claiming this, imo. A lot of the issues we have discussed so far here are both weather dependent and condition dependent. I really do not see how you could blame anyone for that. Further more, you could come up with 100's of case studies of those who also fell victim to the elements, proving that is not only a consistent pattern, its also an unavoidable pattern. It is also impossible to prevent based on history in itself. If you track the deaths in the Whites mountains from say 1900, you will see a pattern that is solid, predictable and further more will repeat itself in the future.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Let me add that, compared to Maine, the Whites are a piece of cake! Maine doesn't get even a fraction of the traffic, and with it, not a fraction of the ad hoc trail maintenance.

Tim

 

[peakbagger]

It may be worth mentioning the book Not Without Peril and the discussion of the law suit against the FS regarding accidents in Tuckermans. The reality is that the locations I mentioned are all on Federal land and thus the state is not the responsible party to improve signage. If anything the FS has been actively removing trail aids rather than improving them. In some ways I am glad that the fed owns these areas as I expect the state response would be ban access outright (RE Cannon Mountain hiking access).

 

[Tuck]

All excellent points supporting my recent GPS purchase!!

Tuck

 

[sierra]

It may be worth mentioning the book Not Without Peril and the discussion of the law suit against the FS regarding accidents in Tuckermans. The reality is that the locations I mentioned are all on Federal land and thus the state is not the responsible party to improve signage. If anything the FS has been actively removing trail aids rather than improving them. In some ways I am glad that the fed owns these areas as I expect the state response would be ban access outright (RE Cannon Mountain hiking access).

I think you 100% correct. Just look at the State parks, No dogs allowed. That is a joke to me, I cannot climb Monadnock with my dog, hell, I cant ( I do anyway) walk my dog on the Franconia Notch bikepath!!!! its freaking posted no dogs!!!. Lafeyette place no dogs.

 

[TJsName]

I think you 100% correct. Just look at the State parks, No dogs allowed. That is a joke to me, I cannot climb Monadnock with my dog, hell, I cant ( I do anyway) walk my dog on the Franconia Notch bikepath!!!! its freaking posted no dogs!!!. Lafeyette place no dogs.

For clarification: https://www.nhstateparks.org/uploads/pdf/pets.pdf

 

[Mike P.]

I am not sure if the disclaimer is still in the WMG but for many editions there was a section about hiking in the off season (winter). The guide basically laid out that the trails are cleared maintained and signed for non winter conditions and that a winter hiker should be prepared for extra navigation. Given the major uptick in winter use, many folks assume that there always will be an old track to follow. In windy conditions with snow especially near or above treeline this may not be the case and signage is not going to improve things when there are 8 foot snow drifts.

One of the more reliable spots for this to occur is a short stretch of trail going up Jackson where a VFTT member got lost and charged for a rescue a few years back. If the trail is beat out its takes 5 minutes to traverse but when it drifts out, the actual trail bed is far less obvious than many openings in the surrounding woods. The upper section of the North Twin Trail is also fairly reliable to drift in. Of course there is rather infamous Haystack summit that has claimed a few lives and been the scene of several rescues. Even with cairns and scree walls, in windy winter conditions finding the spot that the Falling Waters trail heads into the woods is challenge that a 3 season hiker would never imagine.

At least the 26th -28th edition had the Winter Hiking section.

N.Twin was one of my coldest winter peaks. Had done it in other seasons including a 10/30 day when it was hard to get across South Twin. I had planned on North twin being protected on a cold windy winter day. When I got up there (with another VFTT who's name I have forgotten, sorry,) there was enough snow so the tree cover really only provided coverage from the waist down except for the 100 feet or so at the top and along the spur trail to the view.

Signs get buried and blown away in storms. One summer I read the WMG and the ADK High Peaks guide cover to cover, like a novel. Some of the smartest reading I've done. The newer hikers, need to read the guide books more.

 

[Mike P.]

Good points, peakbagger.

Unfortunately, most "new" hikers never look at the guidebook. Guidebooks in most areas are a wealth of useful and potentially life saving information. We have the same issue in the Adirondacks. Most new hikers read an article in a magazine, ask a few questions on facebook, and away they go. This results not only in lost person incidents and rescues, but also damage to the resource. As with many things, education is the biggest challenge.

Interesting that you note specific places where it's common or people to get lost. Clearly, this is common knowledge, so the State and its agencies should know this as well. Given the current legal environment, I think it's only a matter of time before someone is charged for a rescue in one of those locations, and their attorney makes the argument that the common knowledge that these places have this problem "creates a duty" on the part of the state to improve signage there. And that argument actually makes financial sense for the state. I don't advocate "big neon signs everywhere" (the straw man). But if there are a few places where we know there is a problem, an investment in a few big, "obvious even in winter" signs would easily be paid for if it prevented even one SAR incident.

The places he named are more like places to drift in and where you can't see where the trail leaves the open summits and re-enters the woods. It's not hard finding the trail down Jackson back down the Webster-Jackson trail but finding the Webster Cliff trail heading towards Pierce & Mizpah. (I've had to wander a bit finding it myself) The USFS did have a suit back in the 1990's when a skier (I believe) died when she fell behind the snow pack in Tucks when it left a gap late in the snow season as it melted away from the headwall. Think USFS won but it may still be ongoing or was settled for an undisclosed amount.

Not sure about if the New England Trail Conditions site has a Q&A place or if Rocks on Top is still up. I know currently NETC is getting more trail condition reports than VFTT is now. If you are reading just NETC, if you see some vets doing these trips, you may think it's easy to do. Getting trail condition reports and not knowing much about who posted them, means you may be following an idiot or someone who's so good, that they skip by hazards that new winter hikes don't understand. You and I can get by with 50-75 feet of visibility. It helps to not only see a Trail report but know if that person is a trail animal capable of super fast hikes & with years of winter experience up difficult terrain or an out of shape newbie who thinks five miles is a death march. (Think of the different answers you get on ADK HPF depending on the persons risk tolerance)

Could GPS be hurting? If you don't have all your waypoints in, you may know where you are but not know where to go, They may be overconfident in going ahead even with Waypoints thinking they can't get lost but underestimate the time needed to cross an open ridge in very poor conditions.

There are some summits in both places (NH & NY) where you can learn about above treeline conditions without being in wide open places like Marcy or Washington. (Have they agreed that these two missed the turn on Lafayette and ended up on Garfield Ridge and had not attempted Mt. Garfield as one of the two initial press releases said.

In NH, Liberty, Pierce (can drift in very high but some basic knowledge of where the C-Path and Webster Cliff are help) Garfield, Jackson (up and back on Webster Cliff or up C-Path, Mizpah Cut-off and to Jackson to avoid the drift problem mentioned by Peakbagger, at least the first time) and South Kinsman (after going over north) provide some open summits with small open areas and are not hard to get too.

The High Peaks don't have as many but Phelps comes to mind and Cascade (Cascade's open summit area at the larger side of a learning location) and then peaks like Noonmark, Hurricane and Hopkins but I'd guess that not many people are doing the open lower peaks. Saddleback might be on that list for the summit area but it's a pretty long haul and wouldn't want new hikers between Saddleback and Basin.

 

[dug]

To stir some controversy could WE be part of the problem? At one time, you could climb a peak, breaking trail with your group, and come to a summit with no other broken trails. As hiking has exploded, seems many summits now come with trails broken in many directions. In a really windy day, low visibility, one could easily take the wrong route by following some tracks that weren't yours. I did this, leaving Jackson and going about 5 minutes before I went "where was that steep ledge? Something's not right." Turned around and went back. It may be time to reconsider rules that were put in place for an environment that is vastly different from 20 years ago, never mind 100 years ago.

 

[sierra]

To stir some controversy could WE be part of the problem? At one time, you could climb a peak, breaking trail with your group, and come to a summit with no other broken trails. As hiking has exploded, seems many summits now come with trails broken in many directions. In a really windy day, low visibility, one could easily take the wrong route by following some tracks that weren't yours. I did this, leaving Jackson and going about 5 minutes before I went "where was that steep ledge? Something's not right." Turned around and went back. It may be time to reconsider rules that were put in place for an environment that is vastly different from 20 years ago, never mind 100 years ago.

I was discussing that very point with someone fairly new to hiking. I can remember breaking out trails like Liberty Springs through 4ft of powder up high, just backbreaking work alone. On many other peaks it was the same, Passaconaway from the Kanc, Carrigan, these for me were epic hikes. Now, I can read trail reports, run to the entrance of the trail to check it out. I'd say I break out maybe one or two peaks a winter, if I'm there early, 20 years ago, that was not the case. Heck the winter peakbaggers that started hiking in the last 10 years say, have no idea how easy their patches come.

 

[peakbagger]

I expect that in my quest for winter 4ks 20 plus years ago that I got to assist breaking out about 1/4 of the summits. Notably Owls Head from Hellgate and Isolation al the way from RT 16 including the Engine Hill bushwhack and the lesser used (but far faster) second bushwhack up to col immediately north of Isolation.

 

[Bombadil]

Heck the winter peakbaggers that started hiking in the last 10 years say, have no idea how easy their patches come.

While I'm sure the personal frequency of breaking out trails was higher years ago due to a lower winter hiking population let me just say that some of us 'younger' folks can and do hold their own when it comes to breaking trail. Sure I bet there's plenty of people nowadays that have only a faint idea of trailbreaking but some of the strongest hikers I know fall into this 'recent hiker' category and have no trouble (other than the expected type 2 fun) with breaking trail on 15-25 mile winter hikes/bushwhacks. Why wait for someone to carve a path for what you seek?

 

[hikerbrian]

Heck the winter peakbaggers that started hiking in the last 10 years say, have no idea how easy their patches come.

"In my day, we had to walk 10 miles to school...in the snow...up hill both ways...!!!"

I agree, the W48 isn't the accomplishment it once was. But there are still plenty of ways to test your mettle in the Whites. Step off the trade routes, go for an extended backpack connecting remote peaks... The Kilkenny, Davis Path end to end, the Wild River wilderness... There's PLENTY of adventure to be had in the Whites. Plenty. There's just not necessarily a patch available to showcase your accomplishments.

Winter hiking has become more accessible with improvements in gear and communication. But the downside is that folks who would not have dreamed of taking on a 4k'er in the winter years ago (and really have no business being there now) are now busily checking peaks off their list. It's a lot easier these days to go a lot farther before a person realizes how completely screwed they are. What might have defeated a person a mile from the trailhead (with little consequence) now defeats that person 3 or 4 miles from the trailhead, with big consequences.

 

[Raven]

I don't have quite 20 years of data on winter trails in the Whites, but I'm getting close to it at this point.

It seems in my experience, that yes, it is increasingly challenging to find a trail to a 4,000 footer not broken out. I hiked a lot of winter peaks in the Whites in the winters 2002 and 2003, which is not that long ago, but I came across many more unbroken trails than I do now in a typical winter. Breaking out trails to mountains like Field, Wildcat, Jefferson, the Carters (M, S), among others gave me a sense of accomplishment that a date on a grid sheet doesn't capture. But that said, even then, I was coming across trails that were broken out far more than they had been in the early 90's and so on and so forth. I had my fair share of easy peaks 15 years ago as well. It does get easier as it gets more popular. However, there are also new goals people have that still allow a lot of people to challenge themselves (assuming it's not enough of a challenge as is).

I've read a lot of Pat's reports - he's no stranger to breaking out some rough routes and Brian's suggestions are spot on. If you want a remote challenge in the Whites solo the Kilkenny Ridge in winter. Things like single season 48's in the winter which would likely not have been possible in the 80's for many are now more attainable. That doesn't make today's mountain athletes any less impressive in their accomplishments, but the inherent challenge in some goals has lessened over time and these people are taking on new challenges.

And there's this: most of the trails in the White Mountains are still not broken out in winter. It's just a matter of not taking the most popular routes to the summits. Try the Desolation Trail on Carrigain for example. I'm lucky I am not still out there somewhere from an early spring hike back when. You may get lucky and find that one untouched if you hit it at the right time. Ski up Pinkham B road and take the Pine Link. That will almost certainly will be deep snow.

Here's a challenge: Hike the 48 in winter with breaking out trail on every mountain by taking less used routes. Go.

 

[Snowflea]

And there's this: most of the trails in the White Mountains are still not broken out in winter...
Here's a challenge: Hike the 48 in winter with breaking out trail on every mountain by taking less used routes. Go.

Totally agree with Raven.

Last winter I attempted to do just that. While I didn't get all 48 done due to a family member's Illness, there were some pretty sweet hikes: Kinsmans from the south via Reel Brook, Wildcats via WRT out of Pinkham, Waumbek via a bushwhack, Cabot from Unknown Pond Trail, etc.

Never had to walk 10 miles to school thru snow, sleet, and freezing rain, but have been winter hiking 20+ years, and it is generally a lot easier to do the 48 in winter now via the most commonly used routes. Not that that's necessarily bad, but sometimes it's fun to do a more challenging route. Fortunately it's not hard to find one.

Back to the original post, did these two miss the Greenleaf Trail on Lafayette and continue all the way to Garfield? Still not real clear.

 

[peakbagger]

Of course there is always the option of making your own trail. I on occasion break out the abandoned fire wardens trail up Pine Mountain in Gorham from the old railroad stop near the old Harriman Springhouse. There is no trace of the two trails that used to start at that location so I can make up my own. The majority of the route is open hardwoods and the navigation isn't difficult but that area can really pile up the snow. With the exception of the snowmachines on the rail trail down below and the sleds near the summit. I have a very large area that I am assured has no snowshoe tracks. I use larger powder shoes in place of the shoes most folks use on trails as I want all the flotation I can get. Its a lot of work going up but coming down is a blast. Obviously this is less attractive on the higher mountains with dense softwood bands near the summit.

 

[dug]

I didn't mean to turn this into a "we had it harder" competition. Mostly pointing out that as areas become more popular, there are more broken out routes to follow (mistakenly or on purpose) vs. many years ago. Then, you followed one trail up and down...virtually impossible to get lost...you just followed your own tracks around.

Solitude is always there if you want to go find it.

 

[Mike P.]

It's even worse in the ADK's where they know have a designated "path" up the peaks without trails..... Smaller winter group but not what they were in the 70's and 80's.

For NH, if going to Pierce a couple of days after the last snow, you may not even "need" snowshoes, especially if there on a Sunday after Saturday's peakbaggers have been up and down.

 

[sierra]

While I'm sure the personal frequency of breaking out trails was higher years ago due to a lower winter hiking population let me just say that some of us 'younger' folks can and do hold their own when it comes to breaking trail. Sure I bet there's plenty of people nowadays that have only a faint idea of trailbreaking but some of the strongest hikers I know fall into this 'recent hiker' category and have no trouble (other than the expected type 2 fun) with breaking trail on 15-25 mile winter hikes/bushwhacks. Why wait for someone to carve a path for what you seek?

I have no doubt about that, you would leave me in the dust. I was just saying the trail conditions have drastically changed. Considering your recent trip reports, I have no doubt you can " Hold your own" your having a heck of a season. Well done and good luck for the rest of the winter.

 

[DougPaul]

Mostly pointing out that as areas become more popular, there are more broken out routes to follow (mistakenly or on purpose) vs. many years ago. Then, you followed one trail up and down...virtually impossible to get lost...you just followed your own tracks around.

It was then and is now never safe to blindly follow someone else's tracks. You have no idea if they knew where they were going or if they lead to your destination.

Counting on being able to return by following your own tracks isn't 100 percent either--they may drift over or someone else may cross them leading to possible confusion over which set of tracks is yours.


And yes, I agree--a lot more trails are broken out than when I started in the mid-1970s. Another big difference is the rapid exchange of trail condition info. We also used to carry the full range of potentially needed equipment (eg snowshoes and crampons) because we didn't generally know we would find.

Doug