Wildcat pass required for hikers?

[skiguy]

One year in the 70s Jackson was offering a free trail pass and free lift ticket to snowshoers who would pack it down for a race, of course people used bigger snowshoes then

You can still get benifits on trail passes if you participate in fall trail maintenance with the JSTF. Wildcat Valley Trail is one of the trails they maintain; thence the Trail fee.

 

[Quietman]

True, but its major disadvantages in winter are that it's much longer (can't drive to summer trailhead) and likely not broken for snowshoe use

Note that from the article below Sunapee apparently bans winter hiking even if you have a season pass (or did 4 years ago):
http://www.concordmonitor.com/article/ski-lifts-are-for-slackers

Thanks for the link to the article!! Small ski areas like Pat's Peak need all the press they can get!

 

[SherpaTom]

Yes, we were a group of 8 so, $80

 

[SherpaTom]

Yes, we stopped at the Wildcat ski area and asked if there was a cost. They actually have a pass for $10 fee. We did pay them to avoid hassels the following day when hiking out from Carter Dome Hut. Since we elected to hike down 19 mile, they collected $80 from us so they can line their pockets. If it was illegal and someone finds that out, I'll probably send a letter, otherwise, I consider them thieves and will not ski at their resorts(s).

 

[bobandgeri]

I have exchanged a few emails with both Wildcat and the Forest Service. Here is a summary of what I have been told.

From Wildcat:

Wildcat does not wish to deter hiking.

The uphill ski pass is designed for folks that want to hike/skin up and ski down the mountain.

Downhill hikers are asked to check in with the ski patrol before descending to be sure it is safe to do so.

Sledding is not allowed

Access on the ski trails is not allowed outside of operating hours

When asked about dogs, snowshoes, etc.. I was refered to the Forest Service.



From the Forest Service:

Ditto to what Wildcat stated above.

They have 121 ski areas on Forest Service land across the country so need to be in sync across the country.

Dogs are not allowed on the ski trails as they would post hole and leave poop on the ski trails.

Snowshoes are not required.

A hiker who does not plan their hike correctly and finds themself at the top of the ski slop after hours would be allowed to hike down as this would be a safety item.



One thing I find hard to believe is that they think a dog will post hole more than a 200 pound hiker without snowshoes. I could see it if they requried hikers to use snowshoes or skis, but that is not the case. Also seems like they are punnishing all dog owners for the few that may not pick up after their dog on the ski slope/trail.

 

[erugs]

Good information.

Re dogs, some people are overly afraid of them and just don't understand how most dogs behave. (I just went through a horrible period of animosity last summer when people were asking to change the "no dogs" policy at the my condo.)

Perhaps if you said you needed your dog with you as a "therapy dog" you would be allowed to do so. Note: Not a put down people who have to go to that measure, as I would do so if necessary.

 

[akafuzzjones]

I have exchanged a few emails with both Wildcat and the Forest Service. Here is a summary of what I have been told.

From Wildcat:

Wildcat does not wish to deter hiking.

The uphill ski pass is designed for folks that want to hike/skin up and ski down the mountain.

Downhill hikers are asked to check in with the ski patrol before descending to be sure it is safe to do so.

Sledding is not allowed

Access on the ski trails is not allowed outside of operating hours

When asked about dogs, snowshoes, etc.. I was refered to the Forest Service.


From the Forest Service:

Ditto to what Wildcat stated above.

They have 121 ski areas on Forest Service land across the country so need to be in sync across the country.

Dogs are not allowed on the ski trails as they would post hole and leave poop on the ski trails.

Snowshoes are not required.

A hiker who does not plan their hike correctly and finds themself at the top of the ski slop after hours would be allowed to hike down as this would be a safety item.

One thing I find hard to believe is that they think a dog will post hole more than a 200 pound hiker without snowshoes. I could see it if they requried hikers to use snowshoes or skis, but that is not the case. Also seems like they are punnishing all dog owners for the few that may not pick up after their dog on the ski slope/trail.

Seems to be a lot of people communicating with various groups - all kind of getting the same message though.

So if I read this correctly ... hiking UP during operating hours doesn't require a pass ... hiking DOWN during operating hours doesn't require a pass as long as you check with ski patrol first (provided they are near by) ... you can hike DOWN after operating hours if it is the safest way down (seems a bit ambiguous) ... you don't need to wear snow shoes (so people post-holing isn't a concern I guess) ... no sledding anytime ... no dogs anytime.

They make no mention of what trails or staying to the edge - assuming Polecat's the trail and staying to the edge is expected.

 

[erugs]

They make no mention of what trails or staying to the edge - assuming Polecat's the trail and staying to the edge is expected.

No mention of parking. Last year it was Lot C, I think, the one they can block off with a barrier.

 

[MichaelJ]

Perhaps if you said you needed your dog with you as a "therapy dog" you would be allowed to do so. Note: Not a put down people who have to go to that measure, as I would do so if necessary.

Therapy dogs are not in the same class as service dogs. Therapy dogs are not covered by the Americans with Disabilities Act and no law requires them to be accommodated. A legal, documented service dog (such as Quinn) would be different, of course.

I have no tolerance for people who have fraudulent service dogs; I put such people in the same category as those with fake handicap placards in their car.

 

[bobandgeri]

Good information.

Re dogs, some people are overly afraid of them and just don't understand how most dogs behave. (I just went through a horrible period of animosity last summer when people were asking to change the "no dogs" policy at the my condo.)

Perhaps if you said you needed your dog with you as a "therapy dog" you would be allowed to do so. Note: Not a put down people who have to go to that measure, as I would do so if necessary.

What I didn't say was in my email to both Wildcat and the FS, I asked about dogs on a short leash under control, walking beside the owner on the wood side of the ski trail.

Some people get away with saying that their dog is a "service" dog. That is so wrong and very bad for those that have actual service dogs that are trained to provide value to them.

 

[bobandgeri]

Seems to be a lot of people communicating with various groups - all kind of getting the same message though.

So if I read this correctly ... hiking UP during operating hours doesn't require a pass ... hiking DOWN during operating hours doesn't require a pass as long as you check with ski patrol first (provided they are near by) ... you can hike DOWN after operating hours if it is the safest way down (seems a bit ambiguous) ... you don't need to wear snow shoes (so people post-holing isn't a concern I guess) ... no sledding anytime ... no dogs anytime.

They make no mention of what trails or staying to the edge - assuming Polecat's the trail and staying to the edge is expected.

No - ascending the trail system requires a ski pass.

Hiking down during open hours does not require a pass.

You are asked to check in with Ski Patrol at the ski patrol building on the summit so they can tell you what trail to go down. If for example they are blowing snow on the Pole Cat or are actively grooming it they will send you down another way due to safety concerns.

Correct - dogs postholng is not allowed, but a 200+ pound hiker does not need to wear snowshoes and can posthole all they want - makes sense doesn't it.

Correct - no sledding at anytime.

Correct - if you should fail to plan your hike or turn around time correctly and find yourself with no option but to hike down the ski trails it sounds like the FS says that they have to allow it - unless you have a dog with you I guess.

 

[bobandgeri]

No mention of parking. Last year it was Lot C, I think, the one they can block off with a barrier.

Parking was not mentioned at all, but I did not ask that question.

 

[JustJoe]

Maybe I missed it, there's a lot of new info. since I last looked at this. So the uphill ski pass is for people who want to hike/skin up and ski down. How about hike up and hike down during hours of operation? Is it the same pass, and the $10 one that's been mentioned?

 

[bobandgeri]

Maybe I missed it, there's a lot of new info. since I last looked at this. So the uphill ski pass is for people who want to hike/skin up and ski down. How about hike up and hike down during hours of operation? Is it the same pass, and the $10 one that's been mentioned?

Not sure it's new info, maybe some is but it has been floating around for a while, but this is from emails over the past few days with Wildcat's Operations Mangers and 2 people in the Forest Service. Thought it appropriate to share what I heard from official sources.

Yes - the pass is the same for uphill travel regardless of how you want to descend.

I did respond to the FS saying that this is a major change that should go through a public information gathering process and asked if there was or was going to be one. No response to that as of yet.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

This sounds like they are back to last year's policy which is inconsistent with what Ed (Ed & Lauky) reported earlier about needing a pass either way and using them during open hours. It sounds very much like you can now leave a car at the C lot and hike 19MBT and come down the ski trail designated by the ski patrol for $0, which is back to the way it used to be, except maybe the part about ascending Pole Cat which is a less popular option.

Funny that I have not heard from Susan on this as she said she'd put me on the list. I'd like to know because Wildcats is a possible target for Saturday. Maybe they can post their official policy somewhere online?

Tim

 

[Ed'n Lauky]

This sounds like they are back to last year's policy which is inconsistent with what Ed (Ed & Lauky) reported earlier about needing a pass either way and using them during open hours. It sounds very much like you can now leave a car at the C lot and hike 19MBT and come down the ski trail designated by the ski patrol for $0, which is back to the way it used to be, except maybe the part about ascending Pole Cat which is a less popular option.

Funny that I have not heard from Susan on this as she said she'd put me on the list. I'd like to know because Wildcats is a possible target for Saturday. Maybe they can post their official policy somewhere online?

Tim

Last winter I went up Polecat with Lauky and had no problems with anyone and I never was asked for a pass. The fact of the matter is he was a real attraction and many skiers stopped to talk with us and pet him. So there has been a change there. I understand clearly now that my 22 lbs postholing dog is not allowed on their ski trails this winter. I'd still like to know though if he's considered a postholing threat on the summer ski trails.

 

[bobandgeri]

This sounds like they are back to last year's policy which is inconsistent with what Ed (Ed & Lauky) reported earlier about needing a pass either way and using them during open hours. It sounds very much like you can now leave a car at the C lot and hike 19MBT and come down the ski trail designated by the ski patrol for $0, which is back to the way it used to be, except maybe the part about ascending Pole Cat which is a less popular option.

Funny that I have not heard from Susan on this as she said she'd put me on the list. I'd like to know because Wildcats is a possible target for Saturday. Maybe they can post their official policy somewhere online?

Tim

Tim
It was Susan that gave me the responses from the FS. Her answers were in agreement with what Wildcat stated and it was she who provide the answers on dogs, snowshoes, sledding etc..

Of course any corporation can set policy that is not enforced by folks way down the ladder. So while one person could have one experience today, another could come across somebody toeing the company line tomorrow :<

Everytime we have descended the ski trail in the past, we were stopped by numerous skiers who wanted to chat and the ski patrol always waved. So who knows if the folks on the slopes will actually enforce what the FS and Wildcat appear to have agreed too.

 

[bobandgeri]

I understand clearly now that my 22 lbs postholing dog is not allowed on their ski trails this winter.

Poor Dusty was told last week he wasn't welcome in Lonesome Lake hut and now he is told that his 17 lbs of muscle is too much for the fragile ski trails - he is in the bedroom sulking!

 

[SherpaTom]

Hiking down during open hours does not require a pass??? Well we went inside, told them we were doing the loop from 19mile and hiking down and they required $10 pp.

You know what, I spent $10 on much worst things.

Its stinks, but apparently it is the rule so we as hikers should comply. It is probably due to those hikers who elect to sled down making it a dangerous situation. Who knows?

I know at Cannon a few years go, we were told to get off the trail and we replied, tell the skiers to get off our hiking trail...we moved on.

Enjoy!!

 

[natron]

dodge the dog..

as a backcountry snowboarder I've dodged a few dogs.. some like to jump out in front of ya, some like to give chase, etc.. so I can see this being a good policy preventing injury to dog or skier/snowboarder, esp. considering we are talking about an open ski resort trail.. so, looks like hiking is free @ wildcat and it was just bad communication..